Thought I would cheap out and go Vortex but after killing a Venom in 8 trips to the range and less than 2,000 rounds I bought a RMR. Really starting to like this optic. Already at 6 rage trips with it and over 3K rounds so it has already outlived my Venom. Next month I will put one on my M&P CORE. Starting to increase shooting speed. Shot at 10 yards. One group was slow fire and one was mag dumps.
RMR on Glock 34
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mike400
Member
I have a venom on my G34, hope it doesn't get destroyed. About 800 rounds and still working great. I have an RMR as well, but I like the clearer glass and bigger window on the Venom. I have to admit though the RMR seems a more durable optic.
I liked the Venom over the rmr as I pick up the dot faster but I cant deal with how short of a time I get out of one. Maybe somedau they can get them as reliable as a RMR with a little more cost than they are now and I will buy again. My Venom was on a M&P which has a shorter slide so maybe that has something to do with it.
Razai
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- May 15, 2018
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- 669
I actively search for threads like these and I appreciate your thoughts. I have decades of handgun shooting under my belt with just about everything out there. I actually enjoy playing "beta tester," as I enjoy new toys. I love the theory behind RDS-equipped handguns, especially carry guns, but I got a rude awakening about a year back at Avery. Went to the Outdoor Expo and shot a SIG P320 with their sight. My five round mag didn't touch the steel, and I doubt the plate was more than 7 yards away. The lady saw my shocked expression (I am not Leatham, but I can shoot the friggin' snot out of a SIG), and gave me a second mag. I took my time with that one, and still only pinged the steel once. I don't think it was the sight. I heard others doing just fine. My muscle memory is so set that it had to be something I was doing. Just haven't the slightest idea what it could have been. Did you guys find that there was a learning curve with your guns? I am fast on target with irons, and pretty fast with dots on rifles, so I figured I'd be better able to adjust with dotted handguns.
I welcome your thoughts. (I don't mean to hijack the thread. I honestly felt this was an appropriate detour. If not, I'll move this to a new thread.)
I welcome your thoughts. (I don't mean to hijack the thread. I honestly felt this was an appropriate detour. If not, I'll move this to a new thread.)
If you really want information on dots on pistols go here. Aaron Cowan is the best one out there evaluating, torture testing and training people how to use them. I am going through every red dot video again as I pick something new up every time I watch them. His torture testing is brutal using the optic to rack the slide against multiple objects as well as multiple shoulder height drops. So far the RMR is the only one to make it past 10K rounds for him. He Killed a Sig Romeo this week before mid morning past. Figure he will kill Vortex in minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/user/SageDynamics
About ten years ago my pistol skills went went down hill, my eyes are just not picking up most iron sights anymore, everything is sharp in my vision where I used to be able to blur the sights or the target at will. Think the problem is I am focusing on two points at one time which isn't working. This was only on paper but on steel I was still very accurate I could just focus on the steel and bring the sights into my focus and hit it every time, even t box shots. I could still hit well at 10-15 yards on paper and do mag dumps but I also hit every organ in the body as well. I wanted my accuracy back again so this is how I am getting it. When I took out my old unlimited competition pistols and especially my old Para P-16 with optic I tore it up but a full size 1911 with a big honking optic on it is hard to conceal. Then I see all these reflex sights. So me being the cheap ass I am ended up with a Vortex as I own several of their Razor high end scopes and they are fantastic.
Funny thing is I am still accurate with open sights on rifles and sub guns. It is only on short sight radius pistols that I was getting bad at. AR15 at 500 yards open sights no problem. MP-5 on steel at 200 yards no problem. Paper at 10 yards and beyond I still hit but I was all over the place.
I started moving to the reflex sight in November of last year killing my Vortex in 8 sessions, actually it was damaged at 4 sessions and 1,000 rounds but I put up with it. By the time I hit 2,500 rounds or so it shut off on almost every shot, But I was very accurate with it. I sent it in and got a new one and sold it. I thought about trying it again but said screw it and sold it on the old site.
There were a few guys we found bad mouthing RMR's but it was mostly positive. I started deep research on reflex sights even involving some of my security guys at my company who I shoot with every week. They arranged a couple guys to come to us at a private range they used to serve with who were using RMR's in real life and we all took the classes. It was one of the best shooting classes I ever took. That day in April I ordered the first one. Both guys who were teaching us came with a case and between 6-12 pistols each with RMR's on them. I chatted during a break with one and said if they are so good why a case full of them. They explained they may break some day and to have a pre sighted in replacement for it ready to go for every sidearm you carry with a reflex sight. He said they have both had failures in operations with them but they were high round count. We were told once they hit 10K rounds retire it to a practice pistol and carry a lower round count optic. One of the pistols we shot in the class was a Glock19 with a RMR that had endured over 30K rounds, I feel optimistic about my decision today to order 10 RMO6 3.5 and a few new guns to put them on. My confidence is coming back to where if I was ever in a bad situation involving others being harmed that I could take the shot and not miss.
Got more classes after summer scheduled. Dot torture will be one, call the shot will be another to build more accuracy. We are also doing force on force classes with live fire using Simunitions. Should be a fun fall and winter. We have several companies coming in to work with us.
https://www.youtube.com/user/SageDynamics
About ten years ago my pistol skills went went down hill, my eyes are just not picking up most iron sights anymore, everything is sharp in my vision where I used to be able to blur the sights or the target at will. Think the problem is I am focusing on two points at one time which isn't working. This was only on paper but on steel I was still very accurate I could just focus on the steel and bring the sights into my focus and hit it every time, even t box shots. I could still hit well at 10-15 yards on paper and do mag dumps but I also hit every organ in the body as well. I wanted my accuracy back again so this is how I am getting it. When I took out my old unlimited competition pistols and especially my old Para P-16 with optic I tore it up but a full size 1911 with a big honking optic on it is hard to conceal. Then I see all these reflex sights. So me being the cheap ass I am ended up with a Vortex as I own several of their Razor high end scopes and they are fantastic.
Funny thing is I am still accurate with open sights on rifles and sub guns. It is only on short sight radius pistols that I was getting bad at. AR15 at 500 yards open sights no problem. MP-5 on steel at 200 yards no problem. Paper at 10 yards and beyond I still hit but I was all over the place.
I started moving to the reflex sight in November of last year killing my Vortex in 8 sessions, actually it was damaged at 4 sessions and 1,000 rounds but I put up with it. By the time I hit 2,500 rounds or so it shut off on almost every shot, But I was very accurate with it. I sent it in and got a new one and sold it. I thought about trying it again but said screw it and sold it on the old site.
There were a few guys we found bad mouthing RMR's but it was mostly positive. I started deep research on reflex sights even involving some of my security guys at my company who I shoot with every week. They arranged a couple guys to come to us at a private range they used to serve with who were using RMR's in real life and we all took the classes. It was one of the best shooting classes I ever took. That day in April I ordered the first one. Both guys who were teaching us came with a case and between 6-12 pistols each with RMR's on them. I chatted during a break with one and said if they are so good why a case full of them. They explained they may break some day and to have a pre sighted in replacement for it ready to go for every sidearm you carry with a reflex sight. He said they have both had failures in operations with them but they were high round count. We were told once they hit 10K rounds retire it to a practice pistol and carry a lower round count optic. One of the pistols we shot in the class was a Glock19 with a RMR that had endured over 30K rounds, I feel optimistic about my decision today to order 10 RMO6 3.5 and a few new guns to put them on. My confidence is coming back to where if I was ever in a bad situation involving others being harmed that I could take the shot and not miss.
Got more classes after summer scheduled. Dot torture will be one, call the shot will be another to build more accuracy. We are also doing force on force classes with live fire using Simunitions. Should be a fun fall and winter. We have several companies coming in to work with us.
Still hammering away with the Glock 34 and now I have a RMR on my M&P. Got the backup guns pretty well sighted in and starting to get up to speed on the M&P with the RMR. Glock 34 90 to the head and M&P 90 to the chest. Over 6,000 rounds on the Glock 34 and RMR and not so much as one issue with it. Picking up speed again. I used to shoot with my right arm locked out straight but now have both arms more relaxed and bent and it makes a bid difference keeping the dot in my vision. Also lessens recoil.
shooter444
Member
Until posts on this site, I never heard of RMR, I guess I should get out more often. 
Being a 45 guy, and being that S&W doesn't produce a MP45 with the slide cut for a red dot, I went with what I read was most reliable at that moment, Burris Fastfire III with a rear sight replacement mount/adapter. I have had it/shot it for years, but not at the volume, in posts above. No failures of any kind. It now sits in my BO system, because it's little brother (Shield45) is concealable. It has only come out, once a month, for the past couple years, to confirm sight/zero and battery life, so far, so good.
I don't know what a RMR sells for, but, you may want to campare it to a Burris Fastfire III.
Being a 45 guy, and being that S&W doesn't produce a MP45 with the slide cut for a red dot, I went with what I read was most reliable at that moment, Burris Fastfire III with a rear sight replacement mount/adapter. I have had it/shot it for years, but not at the volume, in posts above. No failures of any kind. It now sits in my BO system, because it's little brother (Shield45) is concealable. It has only come out, once a month, for the past couple years, to confirm sight/zero and battery life, so far, so good.
I don't know what a RMR sells for, but, you may want to campare it to a Burris Fastfire III.
well i bought a canick tpsfx9, and just put a burris fast fire on it, and as of yet have not shot it, but its on my list to do very soon, also picked up a venom to perhaps put on another pistol
only issue i see with my tpfx9 is to have it co witness with front site, so i'm now off to find a taller site for the shooter to see if it assists me in hiting the broad side of the barn, perhaps i would benefit from some fast draw instintive shooting, just saying,
Rj
only issue i see with my tpfx9 is to have it co witness with front site, so i'm now off to find a taller site for the shooter to see if it assists me in hiting the broad side of the barn, perhaps i would benefit from some fast draw instintive shooting, just saying,
Rj
shooter444
Member
Knockonit, just my opinion, but, setting up for co-witnessing with the front sight, kind'a defeats the whole purpose of a red dot sight on a pistol. I have always believed that the evolution to red dot sights was to shorten the time needed to get on target, compared with lining up two sights to get on target. Higher/suppressor sights would be an unnecessary expense, imo.
I have elevated/co-witnessed a front and rear sight so they could be seen through a red dot, but only as backup for a red dot failure.
I have elevated/co-witnessed a front and rear sight so they could be seen through a red dot, but only as backup for a red dot failure.
superdrag67
Member
- Joined
- May 16, 2018
- Messages
- 276
338lapua said:
I bought this Venom. It's on my 22/45 Lite and it's been great but of course I wouldn't expect there to be any issues.
The Romeo1 has pretty good reviews so I want to check that out eventually. The shield RMS seems interesting too since you can co-witness with OEM sights but I'm not sure it's all that rugged when compared with the others if you're hard on things.
knockonit said:
The RMR is the only one proven reliable, if Aaron Cowan can't kill it with his over the top abuse I say they are good to go. I would have stayed iron sights if the RMR was not being made. I am not beating mine like Aaron does but I am now at over 6,000 rounds with a optic that gets a beating every time a round is fired.
superdrag67 said:
Look at Sage Dynamics youtube page as he tests them and I don't believe the Shield lasted very long. He killed the Romeo before lunch in one morning.
https://www.youtube.com/user/SageDynamics
And the shield rms test where it failed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hGk4EUs4_c
superdrag67
Member
- Joined
- May 16, 2018
- Messages
- 276
I've actually seen that video before. He is purposefully hard on the pistol RDS's to try and break them. It's good to see the limits but it's not a realistic representation of how it would normally be used. It's not like anyone would sit around slamming the optic against hard objects to chamber a round or drop it optic first onto concrete repeatedly. I think for a range toy the RMS would be fine. If you're planning on it being a carry gun I would go with an RMR for sure.
I haven't seen his Romeo video but I think there were issues with earlier ones that were fixed. I'll have to check it out.
I haven't seen his Romeo video but I think there were issues with earlier ones that were fixed. I'll have to check it out.
shooter444
Member
knockonit said:
I remember when throwing an empty handgun at the bad guy was written into Hollywood movies all the time. :roll: But, now, with all the plastic frames, an empty pistol won't even make a good hammer in a old time western.
Humor aside, you bring up an excellent point! This is something that I thought of extensively, just before I installed a Red dot on my MP, many years ago. Because I think it is a very serious 'WHAT IF" with a carry piece. I have never felt comfortable betting my life on electronics, of any kind.
After some research, I found a guy on line with a video promoting two hand point shooting, from waste level, with elbows locked against both sides of the body. It seemed rather awkward and funky, until I tried it. Now, it is my initial shooting position for 10 yard practice. It really didn't take any time at all to get good at it! It turned out to be so efficient, comfortable and natural, I began wondering why I needed the Red Dot at all.
Hell, I began wondering why I needed ANY sights on a pistol! :roll:
Then I moved out to 33 yards and quickly realized "WHY A RED DOT". I have satisfied my need for accuracy quite nicely even out to 50 yards with a Red Dot. So, I guess I answered my question of "WHY A RED DOT"!
Back to your post, yeah, even without a functioning Red Dot, the job can get done when up close and personal, imo.
i am very proficient to almost a hundred without a red dot, practice it religiously, whilst not a hundred percent, it is enough that i will hit what i'm aiming at.
the red dot is for target fun and exploration, not for me for a full time carry, not gonna rely on electronics to make me a better or good shooter, either i am or not.
just my opinion. gonna stick to ti.
Rj
the red dot is for target fun and exploration, not for me for a full time carry, not gonna rely on electronics to make me a better or good shooter, either i am or not.
just my opinion. gonna stick to ti.
Rj
