prop 127

[doubletapp]

I looked into this today and it seems to me that this is just another way for BILLIONARE Thom Steyer and his( NextGen climate action group) to line his already fat wallet with our hard earned money and don't forget this guy is one using is clout and money screaming for Trump's impeachment. As he admits this on his own web site in order to stand up to Trump we will step up our efforts to unite citizens behind cross section of progressive issues.

 

[Flash]

And they no doubt plan on doing it through solar and wind, both of which have proven themselves to be not really cost effective in the slightest. Here's a snippet from the opposition to 127:

https://votenoprop127.com/

Arizonans enjoy some of the cleanest, most affordable and reliable electricity in the country. In fact, our rates are 50% cheaper than the national average. But, watch out! Proposition 127 would bring California-style energy regulations (and high prices) to Arizona.

This proposal on the November ballot would lock into our Arizona constitution a mandate that, by 2030, public utilities get at least half their power from renewable sources. Dozens of community leaders, business groups and consumer advocates from every corner of Arizona are sounding the alarm.

They know that Prop 127 means higher energy costs – an estimated $1,000/year higher for the average APS household, and much more for small businesses. The result? Higher prices for the things you need. Plus thousands of lost jobs, according to an economic impact study by ASU.

Since enacting these same regulations in 2015, California energy rates are increasing at a rate 3X the national average. Why would Arizona families make the California mistake?

VOTE NO ON PROP 127!

 

[AZGEEZER]

Sounds like a bad situation all the way around. It utterly amazes me how the higher ups introduce things and make them sound better than sliced bread. All the while it's meant to dig deeper and deeper into our already empty pockets only to make the rich even richer.

Ever notice that things that are bad somehow get voted in?

I honestly have to wonder if folks read what they try to pass, or if those electronic voting machines aren't manipulated to the desired outcome. It's not like that hasn't been proven over and over again.

 

[Miker12]

Vote No.

In the bill it says...."irregardless of the cost to the consumer". Big red flag. How many times has your power costs gone down? Power companies have the perfect business model....."use less and you're charged more". And BTW why doesn't this bill affect SRP???

 

[Harrier]

OK, I'm not going to dispute anything about the proposed bill or author, but just FYI I installed my own 6kW solar system last year. My elec bill (house is all elec) averaged $140 before (220 high-85 low), with me scrimping everywhere I could- especially colder house temp in the winter and higher thermostat for A/C in the summer plus shifting as much use to off-peak as possible.... after my solar install I don't worry about time of use and my monthly bill is $19 or less- all service fees- and because I got it in before 8/17 I am locked in for rates for 20 yrs.... too late for the rest of your... :dance:

 

[Flash]

OK, I'm not going to dispute anything about the proposed bill or author, but just FYI I installed my own 6kW solar system last year. My elec bill (house is all elec) averaged $140 before (220 high-85 low), with me scrimping everywhere I could- especially colder house temp in the winter and higher thermostat for A/C in the summer plus shifting as much use to off-peak as possible.... after my solar install I don't worry about time of use and my monthly bill is $19 or less- all service fees- and because I got it in before 8/17 I am locked in for rates for 20 yrs.... too late for the rest of your... :dance:

Yeah, but if you'd invested the money for the solar system into index stocks at the end of 20 years you'd be 'way ahead financially.

 

[Harrier]

I've held Index ETF's for about 10 years and some of them have done very well, others not so much. My electric bill comes every month and I have to pay it regardless of market conditions or other factors. As said, Elec. rates will continue to climb but my buy/sell rates are locked to 2017 for 20 years. It helps my monthly living costs as the SS COLA doesn't come close to keeping up with actual living costs.

Nevertheless, as reported the guy sounds like a elitist douche and I will vote No for the principal of it, and for the rest of you on the grid.

 

[xerts1191]

Reeks of California style politics!

 

[338lapua]

Sick of this ballot initiative crap. It needs to be done away with. You better believe APS is behind this crap as well. I hate APS, we pay for Palo Verde and they send it to California.

 

[Hunter]

I have two problems with this.

The first is government force. Regardless of you and I feel about power companies, we don't have a right to vote on how they do business. I know about the corporation commission and monopolies, they shouldn't exist either. It's no different than voters telling business what legal activities they can and can't allow on their property.

Second, we have no idea what technologies could be right around the corner that make "renewables " obsolete.

If there were no corporation commission, monopolies, and power generation were a truly free market, who knows, we might all have molten salt thorium reactors in a closet providing all the power we need.

 

[Flash]

Ballot initiatives are a good way for the tyranny of Democracy to show itself. It's the reason why we have an electoral college instead of popular vote as the determining factor in National elections.

 

[r0ttie1]

I am totally off grid, but this is B.S.

 

[RandyTF]

The investment you make putting in solar will repeat itself in about 20 years. Where is the savings?

 

[Joe_Blacke]

Sick of this ballot initiative crap. It needs to be done away with. You better believe APS is behind this crap as well. I hate APS, we pay for Palo Verde and they send it to California.

Well, since APS is fighting this like hell, you’d be wrong.

Oh, and you don’t pay for Palo Verde. APS is the operating entity, but the owners are multiple utilities, including out of state utilities.

 

[Flash]

The investment you make putting in solar will repeat itself in about 20 years. Where is the savings?

There is none. I've done the math of buying a solar system vs. investing the money in the market and the bottom line is that if you put the same money in the market over 25 years, you'd be ahead around $200,000.00 vs. putting the money into solar.

The only thing solar is good for is if you want to be off the grid and don't care what it costs. Then you can add a battery bank and a couple huge inverters to the solar investment and you'll be good to go.

OTOH, if you live on a boat, solar works pretty as a 12 volt system (no inverters).

 

[XJThrottle]

The investment you make putting in solar will repeat itself in about 20 years. Where is the savings?

There is none. I've done the math of buying a solar system vs. investing the money in the market and the bottom line is that if you put the same money in the market over 25 years, you'd be ahead around $200,000.00 vs. putting the money into solar.

The only thing solar is good for is if you want to be off the grid and don't care what it costs. Then you can add a battery bank and a couple huge inverters to the solar investment and you'll be good to go.

OTOH, if you live on a boat, solar works pretty as a 12 volt system (no inverters).

I'd still put inverter(s) in. Being able to use a refrigerator/freezer on 110vac would make life a lot easier.

I have a panel that will put out about 25A @15vdc, and a 2k inverter. That will keep the essentials in the house going in the event of an extended power outage.. frig/freezer, lights, TV, internet, D-TV... Just need to get the battery bank and wiring sorted.

 

[gunsnboobs]

2 words..."Government Initiative"

What happened to car prices when the Govt demands safer cars and better fuel mileage?

What happened to fuel prices when the Govt. demanded cleaner burning fuels?

Prop 127 will allow other energy companies to infiltrate into AZ and run off existing lines, towers sub stations of APS. APS will still have to pay the cost for maintenance so they will have to raise rates. If I'm not mistaken Steyer has money into power companies.

Nuff said.

 

[Flash]

I'd still put inverter(s) in. Being able to use a refrigerator/freezer on 110vac would make life a lot easier.

I have a panel that will put out about 25A @15vdc, and a 2k inverter. That will keep the essentials in the house going in the event of an extended power outage.. frig/freezer, lights, TV, internet, D-TV... Just need to get the battery bank and wiring sorted.

It's going to be close. That 25A at 15VDC becomes 2.8 Amps @ 120 VAC if your inverter runs at 90% efficiency (unlikely) and it's very possible it won't be enough to keep everything going, especially with the surge when your frig/freezer turn on.

 

[XJThrottle]

The panel will feed a battery bank which is hooked to a 2000 watt inverter. Which would be more like 17 amps.

My GF could still vacuum the house.... :lol:

 

[Flash]

The panel will feed a battery bank which is hooked to a 2000 watt inverter. Which would be more like 17 amps.

My GF could still vacuum the house.... :lol:

Yeah, just a bit under but that'd do it. But you've got to have it working 24/7 at least for the fridge and freezer and that means that if you can get 25A/hour for 8 hours a day on your panel (impossible unless you've got sun tracking on the panel) then after what a freezer and fridge use, you'd have around 800 watts left for the 24 hour day.

Again, marginal.

Full disclosure: My first company I started installed solar in yachts for the rich folks. Didn't last because it was too expensive in those days, but I ran a room in my house on solar for 25 years. 3 Ham Radio transceivers, coffee pot, b/w tv, AM/FM radio, tape deck, scanner, antenna rotor and lighting. I had a bank of seven 740 amp hour telco batteries and 4 solar panels. Worked well.