Problem loading .223

[gunpoorboy1]

I loaded 100 rounds of .223 today. I was using brass that I have shot at least twice before.

30 or 40 of them went into my .223 cartridge case gauge perfectly and slid right out.

The rest did not go flush and stopped at various levels above the flush area on the gauge.

Does this have something to do with the length of the cases (which I admit I do not measure nor do I have a trimmer) and is there a way of correcting this without breaking the bullets down.

 

[Lobo2087]

No you will have to break them down and measure and trim. At least im not aware of another way

 

[Suck My Glock]

Using a Lee factory crimp die will likely solve this.

 

[TheAccountant]

If they’re not going into your case gauge then you have a sizing problem. You may have a length problem too and your case gauge will tell you that once you have the case properly sized. The case mouth of a case with excessive length will protrude beyond the end of the case gauge, but it won’t stop it from going into the gauge.

I think the more common use of a case gauge is after sizing because the gauge gives feedback on that stage of the process. It obviously can be used with a finished cartridge, and it’s probably good practice to at least spot check some loaded cartridges to rule out any neck thickness issues or other anomalies, but most would rather catch sizing/length issues before the case is loaded. Also, excessive case length can really ruin your day. I would get in the habit of measuring. If you don’t want to trim then take the excessive length cases to recycler.

 

[G34]

It could be a few different issues. Do yourself a favor and get with a knowledgeable reloader. There’s alotnof guesses that happen online. I’m off the 303 if you decide to diagnose in person.

 

[gunpoorboy1]

So, after all lis said and done, if the round fits in the barrel, is it SAFE to shoot?

 

[Suck My Glock]

So, after all lis said and done, if the round fits in the barrel, is it SAFE to shoot?

Yes and no.

Yes, if you will only be shooting that ammo in that gun. But if those loads somehow get into another gun,...no,...not safe,...or they might just not chamber in another gun.


Once upon a time, my Dad had a custom Mauser in .30-06 that had a real tight "match" chamber. The dimensions were the absolute minimum for the cartridge with ZERO slop anywhere. Factory ammo chambered just fine,...and if I loaded ammo for it using brass fired in that gun,...no problems. But when I tried using brass fired out of any other .30-06 weapon to load ammo and shoot in that Mauser, the rounds simply would NOT chamber. They had stretched just enough in whatever looser chambers they had been initially fired through that, despite full-length rezising in RCBS dies, that brass just was changed forever and would not chamber in that Mauser. At first I thought perhaps the problem was some of the brass had been fired in an M! Garand and needed a "small base" sizing die to squeeze that brass body just a tad more. But it didn't solve the issue. The shoulders on those cases had "grown" forward just enough from being fired in generously long chambers, and setting back the shoulder in resizing is not easy at all and requires quite a bit of force. Most cases never shorten back without buckling.

As a result, I had to segregate the .30-06 brass I had on hand to keep the stuff suitable for the Mauser from ever getting mixed the other general use brass.

 

[delta6]

Some good answers here...
Generally, if the brass is not dented or scared up, it is one of four things, case length, shoulder length, base size or TOAL. One of the better ways to diagnose the problem is to use a black magic marker and blacken the complete case and bullet. Carefully, place it in your case gauge, press on the base, pull it out carefully and inspect where the black marker is removed. Do the same with the loaded round in your firearms chamber. [Be sure the gun is pointed at something that you don't care if destroyed or in a safe direction.]

As Suck My Glock mentioned, case length can cause a number of problems, even if it fits in your particular rifle. The big issue can be chamber pressures that could exceed SAAMI specs.

 

[Doc]

So, after all lis said and done, if the round fits in the barrel, is it SAFE to shoot?

Yes and no.

Yes, if you will only be shooting that ammo in that gun. But if those loads somehow get into another gun,...no,...not safe,...or they might just not chamber in another gun.


Once upon a time, my Dad had a custom Mauser in .30-06 that had a real tight "match" chamber. The dimensions were the absolute minimum for the cartridge with ZERO slop anywhere. Factory ammo chambered just fine,...and if I loaded ammo for it using brass fired in that gun,...no problems. But when I tried using brass fired out of any other .30-06 weapon to load ammo and shoot in that Mauser, the rounds simply would NOT chamber. They had stretched just enough in whatever looser chambers they had been initially fired through that, despite full-length rezising in RCBS dies, that brass just was changed forever and would not chamber in that Mauser. At first I thought perhaps the problem was some of the brass had been fired in an M! Garand and needed a "small base" sizing die to squeeze that brass body just a tad more. But it didn't solve the issue. The shoulders on those cases had "grown" forward just enough from being fired in generously long chambers, and setting back the shoulder in resizing is not easy at all and requires quite a bit of force. Most cases never shorten back without buckling.

As a result, I had to segregate the .30-06 brass I had on hand to keep the stuff suitable for the Mauser from ever getting mixed the other general use brass.

If bumping the shoulder is difficult how do you reconcile “case head separation”

Not saying your experience isn’t real, just asking a question.


*this isn’t an invitation to bash me or you, can AZS finally have a thread that doesn’t turn into $hit slinging?

 

[BigNate]

IMHO - if the cartridge is not within spec for the caliber - I would not shoot it. Simple as that. The risk / reward ratio does not work for me. On one side of the balance put all of the bad stuff that MIGHT happen when shooting an out-of-spec cartridge - on the other side put what you get out of shooting them (the value you get by using them).

On the "bad" side you have little things like "the round does not go bang and you have to clear and start shooting again" (common) the way through destruction of the gun and / or serious injury (uncommon). The odds of the "really bad" stuff happening is probably pretty small - but that stuff is still "possible." On the "good" side of the balance you have "not spending $5 on 10 additional rounds or not taking the time to tear these down, resize the case and reload. There really is not a lot of "reward" for the risk.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[G34]

to the OP.

throw the case gauge in a draw or sell it. the best case gauge is the barrel the ammo will be used in.

its loaded ammo. so is the the headspace of the loaded ammo(brass) or is the bullet loaded long for that throat?

if your using various manufacturer of brass the thickness can vary and you could have bulging issues.

if your seating the crimping at the same time you could also BULGE ammo.

if you have a set of calibers you can easily measure the case length and see if you need to trim. I highly recommend at a minimum to verify your brass is in spec before you proceed

before any load is ever produced for a rifle of mine or a customers. I find the headspace, I find the jam into the land using the bullet/bullets selection they plan on using, and discuss neck tension.

hell you could even have high primers due to poorly swaged pockets.

 

[TheAccountant]

Brass gets harder each time. If your chamber is on the larger side, your brass may now hard enough that your sizing die isn’t sizing it back down to SAAMI specs, but it will be sized enough to fit in your chamber. The problem is that the stretching and resizing is what causes cases to grow, so if that is in fact what’s happening, the odds of you having cases too long is much higher.

Whether you use a case gauge or some other assortment of tools to measure, you still need to measure the fired brass against the sized brass. Using the “if it fits it ships” method is a recipe for a bad day.

I suggest a collet puller to break down your cartridges. The RCBS works fine and shouldn’t cost you more than $30. You should be able to break down several cases per minute and can salvage the bullet and powder easily.

 

[Doc]

(which I admit I do not measure nor do I have a trimmer)

The part you said the quietest is the part that speaks to me the loudest.


I’ve been loading 223 for a while now. Maybe not as long as others but a while.

You need to measure and trim your brass. There are no shortcuts to quality ammo, only shortcuts to problems.

Seems you found one.

Pull down those loads, trim the brass and I’m confidant you will have your solution.

You can’t accidentally become a reloader, this isn’t making babies for fooks sake.

 

[knockonit]

best comment here is get with a seasoned reloader and discuss and review, until then, its a crap shoot literally
Rj

 

[kenpoprofessor]

best comment here is get with a seasoned reloader and discuss and review, until then, its a crap shoot literally
Rj

I got some crap, they took away our place to shoot it :twisted:


Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[samnev]

One other thing you might try. Sometimes brass after firing the case body gets swollen so that the case wont fit into the case length gauge. I've had that problem with range pickup brass. So this my not apply to you. But just incase put the end of the case into gauge end first. If the area around the case head is swollen the case wont go into the case very far. My 556 brass will go in about 0.8". Brand new brass slightly further.

 

[Firewhenready7]

I can't imagine shooting a case several times without having to trim unless your only neck sizing..

 

[pcmacd]

So, after all lis said and done, if the round fits in the barrel, is it SAFE to shoot?

Yes and no.

Yes, if you will only be shooting that ammo in that gun. But if those loads somehow get into another gun,...no,...not safe,...or they might just not chamber in another gun.


Once upon a time, my Dad had a custom Mauser in .30-06 that had a real tight "match" chamber. The dimensions were the absolute minimum for the cartridge with ZERO slop anywhere. Factory ammo chambered just fine,...and if I loaded ammo for it using brass fired in that gun,...no problems. But when I tried using brass fired out of any other .30-06 weapon to load ammo and shoot in that Mauser, the rounds simply would NOT chamber. They had stretched just enough in whatever looser chambers they had been initially fired through that, despite full-length rezising in RCBS dies, that brass just was changed forever and would not chamber in that Mauser. At first I thought perhaps the problem was some of the brass had been fired in an M! Garand and needed a "small base" sizing die to squeeze that brass body just a tad more. But it didn't solve the issue. The shoulders on those cases had "grown" forward just enough from being fired in generously long chambers, and setting back the shoulder in resizing is not easy at all and requires quite a bit of force. Most cases never shorten back without buckling.

As a result, I had to segregate the .30-06 brass I had on hand to keep the stuff suitable for the Mauser from ever getting mixed the other general use brass.

I suspect that annealing the shoulders would have allowed any of that brass to be sized to fit the Mauser. There are a dozen easy ways to do this, but don't overheat the brass - it should never glow - and QUENCH it to stop the process.

 

[bill460]

I've found out 2 things over the years, and thousands of rounds, that make reloading .223 / 5.56 MM easier in general.

1). ALWAYS use a Small Base Full Length Resizing die when resizing .223 / 5.56 MM. (Preferably carbide).

2). ALWAYS crimp with a Lee Factory Crimp Die. Do not seat and crimp with the roll crimp die that comes with the set.

A small base resizing die will resize to a slightly smaller size. And the Lee Factory Crimp Die uses collet fingers, that apply crimp with side pressure, not longitudinal pressure that can cause cases to bulge slightly, preventing chambering.

This will eliminate 2 of the biggest issues that can cause the problem you're having.

Another issue that can cause this is not sufficiently lubing the inside of the case necks. What happens is when the expander plug gets pulled through the case neck on the upstroke of the press, there is too much drag on it from lack of lubrication. This can cause the shoulder to pull out upward. This can cause the round to headspace wrong on the shoulder, and not chamber.

 

[samnev]

+1 on Lee Factory Crimp Die.