Howlin Mad
Member
You might try Thunderstick Trading Co. on Jefferson just off Speedway and Craycroft. Mike is a pretty savvy guy, and I know he dealt with some Australians a few times. 520-290-8599
Need help finding an FFL near Tucson willing to work with a non-immigrant alien!
- Thread starter HikingSwarmUofCat33
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I have a coworker with the same issue (Gilbert/Chandler)
It is 100% legal for a non-resident alien with a hunting license to purchase a firearm from an FFL, but every FFL around here is running scared and hunkered down. Not that I blame them with the current administration.
It is 100% legal for a non-resident alien with a hunting license to purchase a firearm from an FFL, but every FFL around here is running scared and hunkered down. Not that I blame them with the current administration.
RufusXG said:
This isn't the case at all.
ATF has been cracking down hard with their "zero tolerance" B.S. policy. This is forcing FFLs to be extra picky.
Couple that with the incoming rule change regarding private sales - therefore forcing every "legal" transaction to go through an FFL - and it is plainly obvious the "long game" is to make it basically impossible to be an FFL. Increasing the amount of transfers increases the amount of possibility for small errors - which the ATF can then swoop in and shut them down.
RufusXG
Member
Forcing FFLs to be extra picky? How? Picking who's 2A rights they feel like respecting?
It's either legal, or it's not. If you can't interpret the regs, or get ATF to do it for you, why do you even have an FFL?
If you're afraid the ATF will stitch you up for a perfectly legal transaction, why in your right mind do you keep an FFL?
It's either legal, or it's not. If you can't interpret the regs, or get ATF to do it for you, why do you even have an FFL?
If you're afraid the ATF will stitch you up for a perfectly legal transaction, why in your right mind do you keep an FFL?
kenpoprofessor
Member
RufusXG said:
Wow, now that didn't come off as biased at all. The ATF are being stupid these days, and very few FFLs want to get close to even brushing the edge of this. I don't blame them. Do you have an FFL? If so, put your money where your mouth is and do this transaction. If not, then maybe just shut up,
Clyde
RufusXG
Member
How is asking questions, that you chose not to answer, biased? Maybe you're just as lazy as those FFLs.
So you support any FFLs denying someone their 2A rights?
So you support any FFLs denying someone their 2A rights?
RufusXG said:
Considering their livelihoods are on the line....
RufusXG said:
Why don't you reach out to the ATF and ask them. Lets see how long it takes, and how "clear" their response is. We will wait.
RufusXG said:
If it was so clearly legal - why does this thread exist? Why are people quoting legal websites regarding? So obviously the legality is in question.
RufusXG said:
Lol, think harder skipper. The problem isn't the FFL. The problem is that the ATF has made the process / laws so convoluted that the FFLs won't risk their business and livelihoods to do a transaction that is so hard to understand the legality of the person wanting to buy a rifle started a thread on a forum for advice, and is posting links to legal websites. I don't blame them either - the zero tolerance stance the ATF has taken at request of the current administration makes the risk not worth it for selling a rifle to someone under hard to understand rules and a fringe/uncommon situation.
kenpoprofessor
Member
RufusXG said:
Put your ass, livelihood, and money on the line instead of talking about others doing so, let me know how it works out.
Clyde
RufusXG
Member
Lame ass excuses. It's clearly legal. Most FFLs apparently only want to pretend to support the 2A.
I made a career in regulatory compliance in an industry with billion dollar assets. If I was too afraid to do my job, I wouldn't have pretended to, just to keep cashing my check.
So Clyde, the only people you ever criticize are those in the exact same line of work as you? Yeah right.
I made a career in regulatory compliance in an industry with billion dollar assets. If I was too afraid to do my job, I wouldn't have pretended to, just to keep cashing my check.
So Clyde, the only people you ever criticize are those in the exact same line of work as you? Yeah right.
"Clearly" yet the OP had to contact a lawyer, the ATF, DPS, post four documents including a flow chart, and then admits there may be a problem on the FFL's end with properly filling out the 4473 correctly to retain legality.OP doesn't want to private party (even though it appears to be legal in the same way as purchasing from a FFL) because he isn't sure enough (after all that) and doesn't want to risk anything.
Once again, I don't see how this is an FFL issue. It is an ATF issue, but maybe you like the ATF and that is why you seem to be missing/ignoring the important point of all this. That would make sense after your posts in the Tombstone thread.
Your "worked in regulatory compliance" doesn't translate into any more insight than anyone else when you are dealing with an government agency that actively and maliciously tries to sabotage and turn law-abiding citizens into felons any chance it gets. You obviously have never dealt with the incompetence of the ATF, cause if you had - it would all make sense why FFLs don't want to touch this situation.
I have yet to meet an FFL that doesn't want to sell guns. Pretty sure they need/try to sell guns to remain operational.
Once again, I don't see how this is an FFL issue. It is an ATF issue, but maybe you like the ATF and that is why you seem to be missing/ignoring the important point of all this. That would make sense after your posts in the Tombstone thread.
Your "worked in regulatory compliance" doesn't translate into any more insight than anyone else when you are dealing with an government agency that actively and maliciously tries to sabotage and turn law-abiding citizens into felons any chance it gets. You obviously have never dealt with the incompetence of the ATF, cause if you had - it would all make sense why FFLs don't want to touch this situation.
I have yet to meet an FFL that doesn't want to sell guns. Pretty sure they need/try to sell guns to remain operational.
pcmacd
Member
"not typically used for hunting...." Ahem. This has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.MarkItZero said:
I just sold two handguns to a non-immigrant alien, dotting all the "I"s and crossint the "T"s.
You need a hunting license from any state.
You need your I-94 immigrant number.
- They give you a receipt at the border w/o the number; you have to go online with your receipt to find the 11 digit number. Poke around, not hard to find out how.
cool arrow
Member
nice try, FEDBOI....not this time.
OK - my take...
1) I'm not a lawyer, and it's been a long time since I stayed at a holiday in express... this is all opinion - so take this with a grain of salt...
2) I'll agree with a bunch of the other folks who have suggested that the problem that you are having in finding an FFL to work with you on this probably is a combination of the fact that this is an edge case that does not come up often, and even if legal, given the current state of the executive branch and the current actions of the ATF, they are afraid of making an honest mistake in the paperwork and ending up in a fight for their license. That fight could literally destroy their business and livelihood if the ATF decides that they want to pull their license. There are stories out there of the ATF pulling an FFL's license over a single administrative mistake in a form. True or not, that has to be in the mind of the FFL holder, and would absolutely have a chilling effect on wanting to take on a sale that requires them to operate in an unfamiliar area. The money made on a single sale is hardly worth the cost of fighting to retain their license if they make an unintentional administrative error associated with a "legal but weird" sale. My guess is that 4 years ago you would not be having a hard time finding an FFL to legally sell you a rifle - but that was 4 years ago - before the changing political winds changed the ATFs approach to managing FFLs.
3) <on this one - consult your lawyer - consult your lawyer - consult your lawyer - consult your lawyer> In the US, and particularly in AZ, there is literally zero paperwork associated with the sale of a weapon between private parties. I know that you are worried about "appearances" with INS - but there is no "appearance" of any kind associated with a private party purchase. In fact, unless they ask you if you legally bought a gun from a private party - or you have some other interaction with law enforcement that causes there to be paper trail around the weapon - I can't see how they would have any information about your ownership. <on this one - consult your lawyer - consult your lawyer - consult your lawyer - consult your lawyer>
4) Given the somewhat edge case that you are in - I'd say that the smartest choice for you to make would be to either borrow a gun for the hunt, or buy a weapon that is specifically associated with the norms for whatever hunt you are planning. Can you hunt deer with an AR-10? Absolutely. Is it the "norm" for most deer hunters? Nope. Is there any value in being a person who is trying to prove that point given your edge case? Nope. Assuming that your purpose in buying the rifle is to complete your hunt - buy something that meets the need and that is easy to defend as a purchase for the hunt. If you are worried about it impacting your naturalization process - don't pick a fight that you don't need to pick. It would be really nice if you didn't have to worry about this - but given the state of the administration, I'd say it is prudent to not "poke the bear" if your priority is on becoming a citizen more than on owning a particular gun.
5) If you do buy or borrow a gun - keep your documentation handy. Should you have to do this? No. Could it make life simpler for you if you run into a local LEO who is not familiar with the hunting license exception? Yep.
Just my 2 cents...
1) I'm not a lawyer, and it's been a long time since I stayed at a holiday in express... this is all opinion - so take this with a grain of salt...
2) I'll agree with a bunch of the other folks who have suggested that the problem that you are having in finding an FFL to work with you on this probably is a combination of the fact that this is an edge case that does not come up often, and even if legal, given the current state of the executive branch and the current actions of the ATF, they are afraid of making an honest mistake in the paperwork and ending up in a fight for their license. That fight could literally destroy their business and livelihood if the ATF decides that they want to pull their license. There are stories out there of the ATF pulling an FFL's license over a single administrative mistake in a form. True or not, that has to be in the mind of the FFL holder, and would absolutely have a chilling effect on wanting to take on a sale that requires them to operate in an unfamiliar area. The money made on a single sale is hardly worth the cost of fighting to retain their license if they make an unintentional administrative error associated with a "legal but weird" sale. My guess is that 4 years ago you would not be having a hard time finding an FFL to legally sell you a rifle - but that was 4 years ago - before the changing political winds changed the ATFs approach to managing FFLs.
3) <on this one - consult your lawyer - consult your lawyer - consult your lawyer - consult your lawyer> In the US, and particularly in AZ, there is literally zero paperwork associated with the sale of a weapon between private parties. I know that you are worried about "appearances" with INS - but there is no "appearance" of any kind associated with a private party purchase. In fact, unless they ask you if you legally bought a gun from a private party - or you have some other interaction with law enforcement that causes there to be paper trail around the weapon - I can't see how they would have any information about your ownership. <on this one - consult your lawyer - consult your lawyer - consult your lawyer - consult your lawyer>
4) Given the somewhat edge case that you are in - I'd say that the smartest choice for you to make would be to either borrow a gun for the hunt, or buy a weapon that is specifically associated with the norms for whatever hunt you are planning. Can you hunt deer with an AR-10? Absolutely. Is it the "norm" for most deer hunters? Nope. Is there any value in being a person who is trying to prove that point given your edge case? Nope. Assuming that your purpose in buying the rifle is to complete your hunt - buy something that meets the need and that is easy to defend as a purchase for the hunt. If you are worried about it impacting your naturalization process - don't pick a fight that you don't need to pick. It would be really nice if you didn't have to worry about this - but given the state of the administration, I'd say it is prudent to not "poke the bear" if your priority is on becoming a citizen more than on owning a particular gun.
5) If you do buy or borrow a gun - keep your documentation handy. Should you have to do this? No. Could it make life simpler for you if you run into a local LEO who is not familiar with the hunting license exception? Yep.
Just my 2 cents...
Suck My Glock
Member
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OMart
Member
pneuby said:
Meh, been going on and out of Murphy's for over 20 years, can never get helped in there so I haven't been back in 10. Miss the old Jensen's on Pima. The people at SNG Tactical are great.
Maybe try John at John's Guns on Camino Seco and see if he wants your business.
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