legal insurance if the ATF visits

[brian10x]

Like the title implies, is there a legal insurance plan that will cover the complications involved if the ATF comes knocking on your door?

Like most of you, I follow all firearms rules, and have been a lawful gun owner for over 30 years. Unfortunately, in the current political climate, we all run the risk of becoming potential felons overnight, should the ATF one day decide to reclassify anything we all legally own and make it illegal overnight.

A musket was once a front line, state of the art "weapon of war" after all. The lever gun was the "assault weapon" of its day. Anything, I mean ANYTHING we now own legally is at the mercy of an unelected desk jockey that is looking to score political points by "reclassifying" anything they damn well choose to.

I'm talking to you FUDDs out there. yeah, I'm 62, but I embrace new technology.

So, sorry for the short rant, but back to the main issue. If the ATF comes by for a friendly visit, I know I'm supposed to keep my mouth shut and simply state "You need to speak to my attorney"

I've been reviewing coverage from all the major CCW "insurance" plans. Which plan do you guys think is best considering the scenario I described above?

Thanks for the advice!
Brian
In Tucson!

 

[WyattBurp]

I'm not sure if my coverage with USCCW has an ATF clause. I will check. I've been with them for 10 years. Haven't needed them yet but I like the safety net they provide if things were to get crazy.

 

[brian10x]

Thanks for checking. Its one of the plans I'm considering, and I'd like to know what you find out.

 

[WyattBurp]

Well, USCCA said their policy is only for self defense, unless you plan on jerking your smoke wagon on the ATF, lol. But, then again, that probably wouldn't stand up in court anyway.

 

[xerts1911]

Claim you’re a Dem, your troubles are over

 

[pneuby]

USCCA ? Consider ..........

https://attorneysforfreedom.com/uscca-self-defense-insurance-policy-review/

 

[brian10x]

That was a good article, but it didn't cover my original question.

I've been researching all the major plans, and to one extent or another, they all seem to concentrate on post shooting coverage assistance of one type or another. That is a great thing to have, and I want something like that to protect me in case I ever have to use my gun in self-defense.

I've sent emails to the four highest rated companies

>Armed citizens legal defence- NO.
>Second call-Waiting for response.
>CCW Safe-Waiting for response.
>USCCA- I used the online chat to ask the question "If the ATF comes to visit, is there someone I can call?"
What I goe as a response was a long list of coverages they offer, bur NOT an answer to my question.
I then pressed harder, and was told to send an email, but that person was out until Monday.

We'll see what happens then.

 

[brian10x]

So, maybe I started off with the wrong question. If I had to start this thread over again, my question would simply be : Who do I call if the ATF comes knocking? And is there a pre-paid plan that covers this?

 

[Cbvanb]

Most insurance policies have a clause that excludes action by a government.I doubt you would find anyone who would insure you specifically against ATF investigations or charges filed. But, there are a lot of general liability policies available that cover legal fees. I carry one as a paramedic, and you may find a policy that will pay your legal fees in a criminal or civil litigation, regardless of who comes after you.

 

[brian10x]

Basically, what I want, is a number I can call.

I know that if I get a knock on my door, I'm supposed to keep my mouth shut, and refer any questions to my lawyer. What I really need is an attorney on speed dial, and some pre-paid plan that covers this.

 

[TheAccountant]

What are you hoping to gain by calling this phone number?

 

[brian10x]

I've been told anything I say to the ATF will be used against me. Everything or anything will be used to incriminate me, no matter how innocent or casual a comment I make.

I have read of this many times. Supposed I say "Yes I have that thing you want, but it was purchased legally"

Will they use that later to say I admitted to a crime?

Supposed I say "I don't have that item" This gives them cause for a search warrant and permission to tear apart my house.

Supposed I say " Fark off you jackbooted thugs" Will that be considered a threat right before they throw me to the ground, guns drawn, while they cuff me?

What if they ask me to sign a nice little form, that will deprive me of my rights and allow them to do whatever they want. (read the fine print)

These guys are trained to manipulate you into doing or saying something that will get you arrested and thrown into prison, deprived of your 2nd amendment rights for life.

Think I'm exaggerating? Examples are everywhere, if you go looking.

In my 30+ years of gun collecting, I have never violated a single gun law. If they come by and I say just one thing wrong, all that goes away in 15 seconds.

I need a phone number I can call if this ever happens. "I can't say anything. Talk to my lawyer please."

Speaking to the nice ATF agent and thinking you can talk your way out of trouble, like the old saying goes, is like "taking a knife to a gunfight." Or, more realistically, "Taking a spitball to a gunfight"

 

[aroyobob]

So, maybe I started off with the wrong question. If I had to start this thread over again, my question would simply be : Who do I call if the ATF comes knocking? And is there a pre-paid plan that covers this?

Sounds like you are looking for the same sort of legal assistance you can get to help with an IRS audit.

Maybe it would help to define what sort of interactions you expect with the ATF. Unregistered machine gun? Unlicensed dealer? Post brace amnesty possession of a an brace-equipped SBR? The gun you bought was stolen and the seller sent them your way? "Random house selection and gun inspection request without a search warrant" by the ATF Citizen Harassment division?

FFL insurance exists but, like CCW insurance, it's liability oriented, not "being dicked with by the ATF" protection.

You might search on "<your location> lawyer firearms law" and call around to find someone local experienced in dealing with the ATF (as opposed to state and local firearms law.) Having an expected hypothetical situation would help them understand what sort of ATF interaction skills they'll need (criminal, administrative/procedural, etc..)

For example, "Phoenix lawer firearms law" turns up multiple results.

One example, (no affiliation, just seemed typical)
https://www.az-defenders.com/phoenix-firearm-crimes/

These guys claim federal firearms law experience / skills:
https://azgunlaw.com/

 

[TheAccountant]

They can’t compel you to give a statement, whether it’s personally or through an attorney. It’s not “talk to my attorney” but instead is “I will not answer your questions.” There’s no need to indicate that you would be willing to talk to them under some certain circumstance (ie, with an attorney present) or tell them who else to talk to in order to further their case against you.

It sounds like you would be much better off paying for an hour of an experienced attorney’s time to get advice on what exactly you should do if certain scenarios occur. I am not sure what exactly you think this magic phone number you can call after the fact is going to get you besides another recurring monthly cost that could be put to better use on something else.

 

[brian10x]

Good suggestions. I'll give them some thought.

 

[338lapua]

Just remember the ATF will use all the money you pay in taxes to prosecute you as well as the money from a lot of gun owners. Any insurance you have will have a limit, they dont have a limit.

 

[brian10x]

Hey! Thanks for the good news!
:angry-cussingblack:

 

[pneuby]

If I had an FRT/WOT, here's what I would do based on the few lawyer-YouTubes watched so far. :idea:

I would affix a cut-off disc to my Dremel, and proceed to slice through the housing and into the guts enough to weaken everything to point of uselessness. Cut-off the 'appendages' , then super-glue those cut pieces to the flat side of the trigger housing. All while taping this with either cell, or perhaps a good camera.

I'd put the wad of metallic junk back into my safe until such time as I got the knock. Upon the friendly Federal request for said item, I would then video myself handing-over the lump to the official. "I choose
NOT to answer any more questions, Thank You."

As it stands now, I am sorta glad the thing never appealed to me enough to spend several hundred to get one.

 

[brian10x]

Its not just FRTs. Also unserialized lowers, magazines over 10 rounds, "sniper scopes" , rotary triggers,night vision, body armor, or anything the left wants to target.

"That thing that goes up" Remember that?

Let me put forth an insane scenario, but I think you will get my point. let's say all black pens are illegal, because one was used to stab someone's eyes out.

Now, I have a purple pen, and next week Monday, the ATF decides to "re-interpret" the rule, and since purple pens are only slightly lighter than black ones, possession of purple pens now makes you a felon.

 

[Azgunlover69]

When i was much younger the atf came knocking on my door because I had sold off some of my buddy's ammo cuz he had moved away. The claim was I was impersonating an officer and selling govt ammo. I assured them I wasn't and that I sold some of my buddy's ammo (he had acquired at the gun show) for him that he couldn't move due to weight and space. I told them I had more to sell and asked if that was ok or if I wasn't allowed to sell it. I asked if they needed to see my car (old p71) or ammo to which they declined and let me go about my day. Sure I was young dumb and scared shittless thinking I had done something wrong without knowing, but they assured me after our encounter everything seemed legit and they left. Now maybe times have changed, but I'd say it was wasn't a bad encounter. I answered their questions and nothing more came of it.