Guy who made ammo for Vegas shooter pleads guilty.

[Crippledtrigger]

So he pleads guilty to making 720 rd of armor piercing ammo for the guy without a license that was found in the hotel room unfired.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/arizona-man-pleads-guilty-to-selling-ammo-to-las-vegas-mass-murderer

So is it the armor piercing part or ammo for others part. Or both? Is it reloaded m855 which the armor piercing issue is in dispute? Or is it reloaded black tip surplus the phuktard used to try to blow up the jet fuel storage tanks with. I'm assuming it's the latter cause 855 wouldnt be piercing 1 inch of steel and it would be a royal waste of time to try anything else. Anyone with a brain would figure that out. I also didnt hear and 50bmg rounds in the recording and 50bmg api would have done the job on those tanks. Not cause an explosion as that stuff burns not really/more than explodes. It probably would have pierced them at least.


Marc Victor is his lawyer so I would assume hes getting better than avarage legal counsel but I guess I wont be making ammo for anyone in the future. If I start reloading that is.

I would assume he is all they got to show for the investigation and phucked because of it.

So anyone consider loaning or selling buddies reloads now?

 

[h8pvmnt]

Is API ammo illegal? Are Tracers Illegal? I don't understand this case. I agree hes a scapegoat to give the appearance of doing something. But this case is so frustrating. So much more to it than we know or at least i know.

 

[knockonit]

yep, someone had to take the fall, for some reason, if it wasnt real they woulda made one up, i have no trust in the system or the mgrs of the system, scares the beejeebus outta me.

figure the atf came up with some new rule or something to make him the BAD guy, since the other one is no longer with us. One would think there are others involved, like lack of security at the so called safe joints. jmo
happy hump day
Rj

 

[TheAccountant]

You need a specific FFL to manufacture ammo for resale. He didn't have one. I don't know how that's confusing.

Maybe he shouldn't have created a business name, advertised online, and openly admitted he sold 700+ rounds to a person who was responding to the ad if he didn't have the FFL. Seems to be more of a case of stupidity versus a scapegoat.

 

[Flash]

You need a specific FFL to manufacture ammo for resale. He didn't have one. I don't know how that's confusing.

Maybe he shouldn't have created a business name, advertised online, and openly admitted he sold 700+ rounds to a person who was responding to the ad if he didn't have the FFL. Seems to be more of a case of stupidity versus a scapegoat.

This is the correct answer.

 

[h8pvmnt]

Yea that part makes sense, its obviously not a huge part of this case just the only thing that is news worthy right now.

 

[knockonit]

yeah i get that part, but do you have any idea of the folks that actually sell reloads without a proper dealy bobaramadingdong tag.
hehe,
the guy got rail roaded, just cause someone had to pay.
anyhowz, bummer for him,
moral of story: no share da ammo

 

[redj]

I don't know why it is so hard to understand what happened here.
The guy loaded ammo and then illegally sold it at gun shows and through the internet without the proper license to do so.
He even made up a company name to sell it under.
Why does everyone keep comparing him with someone who reloaded some ammo and then went out with a friend to shoot it ?

 

[h8pvmnt]

Its not that part that confuses me its the fact they keep referencing armor piercing and tracers. My original question was if those types of ammo were implicitly illegal to manufacture or own. But i see that's just the media sensationalizing. I don't know anything about the guy in this case. Obviously the 700 rounds of ammo he sold was not the root of this Vegas shooting case, just a typical while were at it we can prosecute this. I never compared it to going shooting with a friend. I have in fact had some commercially unobtainable rounds loaded by a friend because i did not have the ability to do so. I don't think that's the same thing. He was not in business to sell ammo, i did not pay him for it and i helped him do it. We just used his equipment. I conversely have helped family members load hunting ammo for there Elk hunts.

 

[shooter444]

You need a specific FFL to manufacture ammo for resale. He didn't have one. I don't know how that's confusing.

Maybe he shouldn't have created a business name, advertised online, and openly admitted he sold 700+ rounds to a person who was responding to the ad if he didn't have the FFL. Seems to be more of a case of stupidity versus a scapegoat.

This is the correct answer.

+2

 

[YNOTAZ]

It is not that APITs are implicitly illegal it is that Haig manufactured them without a license. He had an Internet web site selling ammo and made sales at gun shows. The shooter met him at 2 gun shows, one in Vegas and one in Phoenix. That means he had a business selling ammo.

The FBI lab found tool marks on at least 2 of the rounds recovered in LV that had Haig's fingerprints on them and tool marks matching his reloading equipment. That mans he manufactured ammo purposefully for sale, not for a hunting or shooting buddy.

They also found a partially competed FFL application that Haig apparently figured he didn't need to continue what he was doing.

Yeah Haig's crime was miniscule in comparison to the shooting but Uncle Sugar was going to get their pound of flesh from somebody and Haig broke the law placing a HUGE target on his back.

In case you want to read the complaint for he facts:

https://documents.latimes.com/criminal-complaint-against-douglas-haig/

 

[cool arrow]

You need a specific FFL to manufacture ammo for resale. He didn't have one. I don't know how that's confusing.

Maybe he shouldn't have created a business name, advertised online, and openly admitted he sold 700+ rounds to a person who was responding to the ad if he didn't have the FFL. Seems to be more of a case of stupidity versus a scapegoat.

This is the correct answer.

+2

I was going to post something similar, but this is more articulate and correct....

 

[Doc Holliday]

Plea deal.

Prosecutor gets to keep a 100% conviction rate, and maybe this guy gets minimal jail time or none at all.

 

[storage_man]

Just about everybody that shoots MG's and exotic ammo knew of him. Everybody including me, though he had a SOT manufacturing lic. Obviously he didn't. His ammo shot ok with no problems. There was never no reason to complain and as was explained earlier, he had a Web site, and appeared at gun shows with a Booth & Machine Gun shooting events. Don't know about everybody else, I'm not in a habit of asking/demanding to look at the sellers paperwork.

With that IMO he was stupid and should of been Licensed to do what he was doing. But the News media along with ATF (Which should be called ATFSUX), needed Fodder because they haven't a clue on what triggered this event. All of this is to get the public to "Look here - WE DID SOMETHING".

Your tax dollars at work.

 

[TheAccountant]

I don't think it's worthwhile for the ATF to spend time tracking down every Joe Schmoe out there who is manufacturing and selling ammo without a license, but you can't compare that to this case. They had/have zero idea of the shooter's motive, if anyone else was involved, etc. They processed the scene and found fingerprints on the ammo - a lead they couldn't ignore. Come to find out he's just an unlicensed mfg/reseller, but at that point the work is done, so why not charge him? If I went through the hassle to get and maintain a Type 6 or 10 FFL and he didn't get charged, I would be pissed.

 

[shooter444]

TheAccountant wrote,..."They had/have zero idea of the shooter's motive, if anyone else was involved, etc. They processed the scene and found fingerprints on the ammo - a lead they couldn't ignore."


That sounds like reasonable police procedure,... but, so is sealing the perps residence and going through it with a fine tooth comb.

But they didn't do that!

In fact! They didn't go to his home until after some,.... "UNKNOWN's",... had broke in and ransacked it,... that they seem to have ignored, along with a few others other facts!

Real good police work,... I think not!

This whole incident has smelled bad from day one,... and, I think the concept that, with time, all will become yesterday's garbage for the dump!!!

 

[TheAccountant]

TheAccountant wrote,..."They had/have zero idea of the shooter's motive, if anyone else was involved, etc. They processed the scene and found fingerprints on the ammo - a lead they couldn't ignore."


That sounds like reasonable police procedure,... but, so is sealing the perps residence and going through it with a fine tooth comb.

But they didn't do that!

In fact! They didn't go to his home until after some,.... "UNKNOWN's",... had broke in and ransacked it,... that they seem to have ignored, along with a few others other facts!

Real good police work,... I think not!

This whole incident has smelled bad from day one,... and, I think the concept that, with time, all will become yesterday's garbage for the dump!!!

Source?

 

[Elk34]

Here is the problem at hand. Mr Haig sold all kinds of ammo at his table at the gun shows. He retipped a lot of it. Meaning he put Markings on the bullets. Now I don't know if the rounds he was selling really were what he said they were because he tried passing off 308 and 300 black out as rufus rounds. Which there is no such thing. You can get them.in extra heavy insidarary but not rufus. There is not enough room to put the explosive in a 308. The smallest round is a 50 bmg. The guy in vagus just happened to have Haigs number in his phone. He of course made ammo for him. Now even though he may not have used it at the time it was still in the room or at the crime scene to put the spot light on Mr Haig. Seeing how they have no one else to point at they will through Haig under the bus. But that's not all they have on Mr Haig. He has been selling ammo and sending it through the US Mail across state lines forever. So he has been breaking the law for a long time not to mention the manufacturing of Ammunition without his class 6 and class 1 for taxes. There is plenty more as well I wont get into it here. He just got caught. O by the way with out a special license I believe the last time I checked you cant make armor piercing ammo. Now you can get what's out on the market 3006 and strip it down get rid of the corrosive powder and primer and put it back together for your own consumption but that's it. Repurposing the black tip into 308 for yourself is a gray area but selling it in 308 is highly a no no.

 

[shooter444]

TheAccountant wrote,..."They had/have zero idea of the shooter's motive, if anyone else was involved, etc. They processed the scene and found fingerprints on the ammo - a lead they couldn't ignore."


That sounds like reasonable police procedure,... but, so is sealing the perps residence and going through it with a fine tooth comb.

But they didn't do that!

In fact! They didn't go to his home until after some,.... "UNKNOWN's",... had broke in and ransacked it,... that they seem to have ignored, along with a few others other facts!

Real good police work,... I think not!

This whole incident has smelled bad from day one,... and, I think the concept that, with time, all will become yesterday's garbage for the dump!!!

Source?

It was all over the news for a couple of days, you must have missed it,... I'm sure an in depth google search will reveal a publication or two.

 

[TheAccountant]

TheAccountant wrote,..."They had/have zero idea of the shooter's motive, if anyone else was involved, etc. They processed the scene and found fingerprints on the ammo - a lead they couldn't ignore."


That sounds like reasonable police procedure,... but, so is sealing the perps residence and going through it with a fine tooth comb.

But they didn't do that!

In fact! They didn't go to his home until after some,.... "UNKNOWN's",... had broke in and ransacked it,... that they seem to have ignored, along with a few others other facts!

Real good police work,... I think not!

This whole incident has smelled bad from day one,... and, I think the concept that, with time, all will become yesterday's garbage for the dump!!!

Source?

It was all over the news for a couple of days, you must have missed them,... I'm sure a i'm depth search will reveal a publication or two.

You may want to search again to get your facts straight.