FBI: the 9mm is as good as a .45?

[pneuby]

Before you roll your eyes, this one is by that old-timey L.E. trainer, Dick Fairburn. Whichever way you tilt, I like his presentation. It is easily watched at 1.75, or even 2x if you're really impatient, LOL.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nVfMKUqVKA

 

[mtptwo]

Yes, and the 1911 is still the goodest of handguns. How many times do we have to hear some old timer sing the laurels of .45 ACP? The reality is, we should all be using 10mm.

 

[pneuby]

Funny you should mention that.......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VccWpKGaw2s&t=1205s

 

[kenpoprofessor]

Yes, and the 1911 is still the goodest of handguns. How many times do we have to hear some old timer sing the laurels of .45 ACP? The reality is, we should all be using 10mm.

Ah, god's caliber, good man. :mrgreen: I've got a pistol and an AR pistol in that caliber, I wished ammo was cheaper for it.


Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[kenpoprofessor]

Funny you should mention that.......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VccWpKGaw2s&t=1205s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDvzul3rvTk

Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[brandonsmash]

Yes, and the 1911 is still the goodest of handguns. How many times do we have to hear some old timer sing the laurels of .45 ACP? The reality is, we should all be using 10mm.

The reality is that there are several "superior" (which is really a qualitative judgment) rounds than .45. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy .45 and love 1911s; however, 10mm, .40, 9mm, even .22 TCM would also be viable cartridges with various benefits over .45.

That said, when you just need a Big Damn Hole it's hard to beat the classics.

 

[smithers599]

The FBI said that the 9mm was insufficient, and that they absolutely had to have 10mm/.40 so they could put their lives on the line for us every day. Then they said "Forget what we said before. 9mm is great."

I don't care all that much about what the FBI says.

 

[428cj]

Yes, and the 1911 is still the goodest of handguns. How many times do we have to hear some old timer sing the laurels of .45 ACP? The reality is, we should all be using 10mm.

SHOTGUN!

 

[xerts1191]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGTmfyDY2zw

 

[Noshoot]

There’s no magic bullet.

Fill the target full of holes and let the blood seep out, and let the air seep in…

 

[kenpoprofessor]

Yes, and the 1911 is still the goodest of handguns. How many times do we have to hear some old timer sing the laurels of .45 ACP? The reality is, we should all be using 10mm.

SHOTGUN!

https://www.tiktok.com/@willwork4tequila/video/7157758345707851054

Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[knockonit]

someone post a comment from a gun shot victim of each caliber, and see if they had a preference of being shot with, jeebus h christy, :roll:
Rj

 

[kenpoprofessor]

someone post a comment from a gun shot victim of each caliber, and see if they had a preference of being shot with, jeebus h christy, :roll:
Rj

LOL, you and I both know people who can tell that tale. :mrgreen:

Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[Suck My Glock]

This is best summed up by the old gun fighter maxim from the 70's;...

A .22 in the eye is better than a .44 in the big toe.


As long as you can put the bullets where they need to go to do what they need to do,...it ALMOST doesn't matter what caliber it is.


Thus, while 10mm is indeed a superior caliber to 9mm,...what good is that to you if you can't hit anything with it because you are a flinching fool who can't stand the recoil and didn't become proficient with it?

If 9mm is the maximum power level of cartridge you can master and put rounds on target quickly with,...fine. THAT is an effective gun for you. And there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[omegaman]

Who cares, dumb old argument. It would suck to get shot by either. But I get there point, bullet design and newer powders have helped the 9mm quite a bit.

 

[BigNate]

If you know you are going to a gunfight... you should take...

...a battle rifle...

*** Anyway - now stepping off of my soapbox and speaking to the actual question... ***

At the end of the day - it is a very multi-varied equation (determining the "best" defensive handgun cartridge)... My personal equation reads like this...
1) Non-negotiable - the cartridge must have enough ass to meet the generally accepted 12" - 18" of penetration standard (I don't want to do everything right and have my 22 shorts bounce off of the thick leather vest under the Carhart jacket.)
2) As long as #1 is met, the next most important factor is shot placement - so each of the following becomes a factor:
a) The cost to practice is a factor. Cheaper rounds are better than more expensive rounds. Until I have enough money that I can put 300 $4.00 Underwood 230gr 50 AE rounds a day down range and throw away the brass - price matters. Which cartridge will let you practice more?
b) The shooter must be able to shoot the weapon with reasonable accuracy at defensive firearm distances (I "practice" through 25 yards). Years ago a friend was all about the .40 SW and .357 sig cartridges. We went out shooting and he brought his G33 (subcompact glock in .357 sig). I'm 6'2" 300lbs and have been shooting all my life and it didn't take long to decide that it was not a direction that I wanted to go. it was super snappy, to the point that 2nd shot timing was noticeably slower than with the G30 (subcompact .45ACP) that I carried at the time. That - and I simply didn't enjoy shooting it.
3) More rounds is better than less rounds
4) There must be a reasonable supply of high quality defensive rounds available in the cartridge (this probably belongs further up the list - but given that we are talking about .45ACP vs 9MM and it is totally true of both of them - I put it down here).

I was a .45 ACP guy for many years - and the trusty G30 is still part of the EDC rotation - but I've given in and adopted the 9mm as a primary carry cartridge. For me - the primary driver for this was 2a - price to shoot. I can buy bulk S&B 124 gr "NATO" 9mm ball that tends to run "hot" so it fairly reasonably approximates the 124gr +p stuff that I carry - and the price just over 1/2 what I pay for 230gr .45ACP ball practice rounds. Between that, and the fact that in the same thickness of a package I can carry almost twice the rounds (the G30 is 9+1 - the PDP is 18+1) - I've landed on carrying the 9mm more and more often. At the end of the day, the ability to put more practice rounds through the 9mm is the biggest single factor driving the decision.

 

[SupportTheSecond]

I keep on losing my 10mm socket and end up having ten or twenty, oops, sorry wrong topic.

 

[BigNate]

I keep on losing my 10mm socket and end up having ten or twenty, oops, sorry wrong topic.

Is this where I yell:
"GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!" LOL

 

[paulgt2164]

Debate as tired as the ol' "ferd vs chebby" b.s.

Historically speaking, the leading cause of death inflicted on humans by other humans using some sort of instrument or apparatus is still some variation of "pointy stick" and will remain to be so for a while longer so.... Just make sure you are proficient at using the firearm that you intend to use to poke holes in bad people if required - and you will more than likely be fine.

 

[Joelafives]

dead horse