Considering Optics Ready Defensive Pistols (WWAZSD)

[BigNate]

I'm considering the purchase of a new optics ready carry / defensive pistol. This will not be a race gun. My priorities are:
1) Dead reliable with essentially all factory defensive ammunition
2) Optics Ready - I don't want to cut / customize a slide to be able to equip a mainstream red-dot
3) Full capacity / compact to mid size - "fair" concealability - but I'm not looking at subcompacts (I have large hands - I've owned or shot a variety of subcompacts from Walther PPS to Sig 365 and others - they simply don't fit my hand).
4) Semi-auto pistol - not looking at revolvers

EDIT: Expanding on #2 above - I will really only consider factory stock optics ready guns. I'm a guy who will gladly mod a race or target gun - but I choose not to carry modified guns for personal defense. Just my choice.

I'm considering the following guns:
* HK VP9 (optics ready)
* Sig P226 Legion RXP
* Glock G19 MOS
* CZ P10 C (optics ready)
EDIT - Added the following based on feedback below:
* Sig P229 Legion RXP Compact
* S&W M&P M2.0

Other guns that I should be looking at? Advice?

 

[Joe_Blacke]

M&P 2.0

 

[Basher]

If you’re not considering the Langdon LTT RDO, then you’re wrong and you should feel bad.

 

[superduty38]

If you are looking at a Sig P226, consider the P229 which is more a mid size gun. I carry an optic sighted P229 as my EDC. A few Gray Guns trigger parts and you will have a very nice carry piece with a single action trigger no striker fired gun can come close to.

 

[QuietM4]

A red dot is not a substitute for proper training or skill. Don't trust your life to batteries.

 

[Basher]

A red dot is not a substitute for proper training or skill. Don't trust your life to batteries.

What’s the point you want to make with your comment, in reference to the OP’s question?

 

[QuietM4]

A red dot is not a substitute for proper training or skill. Don't trust your life to batteries.

What’s the point you want to make with your comment, in reference to the OP’s question?

The part where the OP said "Advice?" at the end of his post.
Do you need to fill out a Hurt Feelings Report?

 

[kenpoprofessor]

A red dot is not a substitute for proper training or skill. Don't trust your life to batteries.

What’s the point you want to make with your comment, in reference to the OP’s question?

The part where the OP said "Advice?" at the end of his post.
Do you need to fill out a Hurt Feelings Report?

If you're going to critique, at the very least, be more comprehensive and expand on the context of the critique, right?


Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day
Clyde

 

[G34]

I wouldnt recommend anything optics ready. And get the slide cut for that optic by a reputable smith. That way the pocket is cut for that optic and it’s press fit. I’ve seen alotnof guns have issues with aftermarket plates.
I run a Glock 45 with a Holosun 507/blacklist barrel/Zev comp and others for duty and it’s been an amazing set up.

 

[delta6]

What’s the point you want to make with your comment, in reference to the OP’s question?

The part where the OP said "Advice?" at the end of his post.
Do you need to fill out a Hurt Feelings Report?

If you're going to critique, at the very least, be more comprehensive and expand on the context of the critique, right?


Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day
Clyde

+1 :handgestures-thumbup:

 

[Basher]

A red dot is not a substitute for proper training or skill. Don't trust your life to batteries.

What’s the point you want to make with your comment, in reference to the OP’s question?

The part where the OP said "Advice?" at the end of his post.
Do you need to fill out a Hurt Feelings Report?

No, though it’s sad that AZS has devolved to the point where someone asks for clarification on a post and that’s immediately where some people go.

The reason I asked was because the “advice” given wasn’t really in concert with what was asked, so I was curious what you angle was. Not only that, but if the point you were trying to make is that RDS on pistols are dumb, that’s kind of a dated thought process. LOADS of people, including some professional door kickers, run rifles without backup irons nowadays. I don’t agree with the practice myself (because I’ve had an Aimpoint die on me), but MY point is that it seemed like you were stating the use of an RDS was a crutch, when in reality, it’s a force multiplier.

But I agree that BUIS (for rifle and pistol) still have a place and people should know how to use them despite RDS being “the future.”

Maybe we can all calm down now instead if being wound so tight, eh?

 

[Basher]

What’s the point you want to make with your comment, in reference to the OP’s question?

The part where the OP said "Advice?" at the end of his post.
Do you need to fill out a Hurt Feelings Report?

If you're going to critique, at the very least, be more comprehensive and expand on the context of the critique, right?


Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day
Clyde

I wanted to know what his point was before “expanding the critique,” because the post seemed fairly vague. He could have been implying that RDS on pistols are stupid, or that the OP should be sure to be proficient with irons first, or something else. Rather than jump the gun like the MO here seems to be anymore, I sought out clarification on his comment. Instead, I got a bit of a wise-ass reply. That’s AZS anymore, it seems…

 

[delta6]

A red dot is not a substitute for proper training or skill. Don't trust your life to batteries.

Training, the act of teaching a person a skill, is always good but I believe you meant training and practice??

As for batteries, ten years ago I might have been more concerned, but today not so much. With many of the known manufacturers; they are achieving useable battery life of 40 to 50,000 hours of run time. The electronics have come a long way during that time. With that kind of run time, you just need to change your battery every presidential election or for some of the guys I shoot with, every time you clean your gun. :lol:

Of course the solution, if you do not want to solely rely on your RDS, is BUIS.

 

[delta6]

What’s the point you want to make with your comment, in reference to the OP’s question?

The part where the OP said "Advice?" at the end of his post.
Do you need to fill out a Hurt Feelings Report?

No, though it’s sad that AZS has devolved to the point where someone asks for clarification on a post and that’s immediately where some people go.

The reason I asked was because the “advice” given wasn’t really in concert with what was asked, so I was curious what you angle was. Not only that, but if the point you were trying to make is that RDS on pistols are dumb, that’s kind of a dated thought process. LOADS of people, including some professional door kickers, run rifles without backup irons nowadays. I don’t agree with the practice myself (because I’ve had an Aimpoint die on me), but MY point is that it seemed like you were stating the use of an RDS was a crutch, when in reality, it’s a force multiplier.

But I agree that BUIS (for rifle and pistol) still have a place and people should know how to use them despite RDS being “the future.”

Maybe we can all calm down now instead if being wound so tight, eh?

Well said Basher..
Comprehensive and expanded..
OK..everybody calm..?

 

[BigNate]

M&P 2.0

Thanks – I’ll add it to what I eval. It is amazing how you can develop an only partially rational bias against a brand. My first handgun was a SW Sigma SW9 bought in ’94 because it was Smith and Wesson and $100 or so cheaper than the Glock that it copied. It was not a good gun – the firing pin would foul after about 100 rounds and would start to light-strike. I sent it back to SW and they fixed it (they did fix the fouling problem) but it stuck in my head and for the last almost 30 years I’ve avoided their polymer guns. Probably time for me to let it go… LOL
____________________________________________________________________________

If you’re not considering the Langdon LTT RDO, then you’re wrong and you should feel bad.

I’ve never heard of a Langdon LTT RDO – I now have homework…
____________________________________________________________________________

A red dot is not a substitute for proper training or skill. Don't trust your life to batteries.

I shoot regularly - as often as my wallet allows - and while I'd not call myself an "expert" (I'm no USPSA Grand Master) - I am competent with my defensive firearms. Right now I'm considering "evolving" to use a somewhat elevated tool (optic equipped handgun) - and you can sleep well knowing that I'll be practicing with it - as often as my wallet allows. No hurt feelings – and if I were a brand new shooter who thought that buying an optic was a substitute for practice – it would be good for me to hear this. Heck – it gave me the idea that by buying a handgun with optic I can justify budgeting extra ammo purchase for practice – “because it is a new platform and I really need to get a few thousand rounds through it as quickly as possible…”
____________________________________________________________________________

If you are looking at a Sig P226, consider the P229 which is more a mid size gun. I carry an optic sighted P229 as my EDC. A few Gray Guns trigger parts and you will have a very nice carry piece with a single action trigger no striker fired gun can come close to.

Thanks much – I’ll absolutely look at the P229 family.
____________________________________________________________________________

I wouldnt recommend anything optics ready. And get the slide cut for that optic by a reputable smith. That way the pocket is cut for that optic and it’s press fit. I’ve seen alotnof guns have issues with aftermarket plates.
I run a Glock 45 with a Holosun 507/blacklist barrel/Zev comp and others for duty and it’s been an amazing set up.

Thanks much. Sounds like a very cool build. I’ve always taken the position that I want my defensive firearm(s) – things that I carry for personal defense – to be unmodified factory guns shooting factory loaded rounds. The primary reason for this is that if I were ever to use my firearm defensively I don’t want to create any opportunity for a prosecutor to portray me as a the proverbial “blood thirsty heathen who spent thousands of dollars creating his super-deadly, extra mean, custom gun shooting extra powerful hand loaded cartridges meant to inflict extra pain on poor johnny who only tried to take his wallet to feed his starving children.” I’ll do custom work on a race / competition gun and when I go to an optics eligible pistol class I’ll probably do exactly what you say above – but for a defensive carry gun I’m going to stick with a factory optic-ready gun.

 

[BigNate]

If you’re not considering the Langdon LTT RDO, then you’re wrong and you should feel bad.

OK - so I looked this up and I'm reading this to be a Langdon customized Beretta 92... If I'm mis-reading this please let me know.

 

[Basher]

If you’re not considering the Langdon LTT RDO, then you’re wrong and you should feel bad.

OK - so I looked this up and I'm reading this to be a Langdon customized Beretta 92... If I'm mis-reading this please let me know.

You are correct, sir! If you like the 92 series, this is one of the top RDO pistols available. Everybody makes a Glock slide or whatever, but the Langdon LTT is really something else. Well worth the price of admission, and then can be found used for a good bit off retail.

Technically speaking, it’s a slide milled for an optic plate. But it’s one of the better done options out there. To my knowledge, I’ve not heard of any issues with them, and they’re breathing new life into the 92. Absolutely fantastic pistols.

 

[BigNate]

OK - Update on my search. I've eliminated the following for various reasons:

* Sig 229 / 226 Legion RDX - Price and hand feel were overrode the fact that I loved the trigger. As much as I love these guns I think I'm going to stick with the simplicity of the striker fire gun for EDC.
* Langdon LTT RDO - found a different Langdon Beretta (polymer frame of some sort - I don't remember the model) and a standard 92X - same reasons as above. The trigger on the Langdon that I was able to put my hands on was absolutely fantastic - and I'd be surprised if I don't end up with one some day - but at this point it won't be my choice for EDC.
* S&W M&P 2.0 - There are some things to like but I really did not care for the trigger - particularly the reset. It felt like mush and as I was dry-firing it, it felt much longer than it really was as I kept releasing well past the reset. A lot of the other stuff seemed "pretty good" to me - but the trigger really killed it for me.
* CZ P10C - Did not care for the hand feel and in my view the trigger was "OK" - but I don't remember being super impressed by it and given the way the gun felt in the hand I have not gone back to look at a second one.

The following are still in the running and are listed in order of preference based on what I've been able to do with them so far. I'm going to try to shoot each of these...
1) Walther PDP Compact - Really love the feel of this gun in my hand and the trigger is fantastic. It is not absurdly expensive which makes it an easier buy than the VP9. Trigger is the best factory trigger I've felt in a striker-fire pistol.
2) VP9 - Two of my kids own this gun (although not the optic ready version) so I've shot it, and really like it. I put it below the PDP on this list because it is more expensive - so if the PDP shoots as well as the VP9 it will be hard to spend the extra.
3) Glock 19 or 45 MOS Gen 5 - This is still on the list primarily because of its place in the market, and the fact that I was surprised at the improvement to the trigger in the G45 that a sales guy stuffed into my hand. I think it is a long-shot - but I'm going to go shoot my kid's gen 5 G19 MOS as part of this exercise.

It is not impossible that I get through shooting these and get launched back into the Sig and Langdon/Beretta territory but I doubt it.. .

 

[h8pvmnt]

The S&W M&P trigger can be greatly improved with the APEX kit, once that's done its a great option especially the compact optics ready version. The G45/19 are great but not really concealable to me. I have settled on a SIG P365XL with a Romeo Zero for an Optics Carry gun.

 

[h8pvmnt]

Langdon sells the optics ready slide separately as well that can be installed on most 92 series guns. AZ firearms has a M9 right now for less than or close to 500.00 on GB. The trigger jobs on the LTT elite however are so good that just the slide wouldn't be enough once you feel the difference....