CCW/Self Defense and Utilizing a Red Dot?

[opal669]

Morning All,

Looking for feedback for those who carry, have taken classes, etc. with a red dot of some sort on a semi-auto...suppose the G19 MOS or 509 Tactical, before taken a jump in. Not looking at all from a competition aspect.

So a lot of re-training from what I have researched and if I go RMR the durability should be fine...but do you really see that much of an improvement on sight picture pick-up/acquisition?

Classes I have taken so far and my focus stress close up action, am not as concerned with 30 yard shots as 25 foot or less so I question wonder the value since I find myself getting more mechanical with the handgun rather than measure aiming if that makes sense?

Any advise I'll take, thank you.

Shawn

 

[Super Trucker]

I run an M&P 9 that was milled for an RM01. I have had this one about 1.5 years and my times are quicker with it than before it.
Some of the advanced classes I have taken use timers for certain drills, so that is what I mean by times are quicker. You can also use the rmr as a charging handle to save a little time during reloads and malfunction clearing (added bonus).

I would say that it took me about 1k draw strokes to get the dot to just "appear".

When you first start, do not chase the dot. If the dot "isn't there", lower the gun and try again.
I am getting older (almost 50) so my eyes are not that great, I think that the rmr has been a great improvement on sight acquisition for me.

I have the gen 1 Trijicon unit and my only complaint is that with the model RM01 if I am in a dark area and turn on the weapon light the red dot washes out. I am thinking that the next gun I put one on I will try the RM06.

 

[338lapua]

I have fully transitioned to the RMR for daily carry. I started in January of this year. I carry either a M&P Pro CORE or a Glock 34MOS both with Trijicon RMR with the 3.25 dot. I have over 10,000 rounds through the Glock and over 7,000 through the M&P Pro CORE. I do most of my shooting at 3,5,7 and 10 yards and some days I will have one at 25 for torso shots. Some days I will shoot all 5 distances at the same time, I am hitting what I aim at. The center mass shots are easy the head shots slow me down beyond 10 yards. I have tried other optics like vortex and so for only the Trijicon has proven reliable.

This is very typical of my accuracy with both weapons, one group is M&P chest and head is Glock. Most of these are double taps and the chest of this target has a 17 round mag dump with .20-.25 splits.

3 shots to confirm zero and then multiple mag dumps .20-25 splits mostly. Both M&P and the Glock 34

 

[338lapua]

I also have drawn well over 1,000 times as well as pistol down, eye on target and bring into my line of sight which is on the target the dot. I look at the center of either the head circle or the chest circle and then bring the dot to the center of the target and fire, as soon as I see the dot again I fire again. The hardest part of this is getting the dot into your line of sight into the target, you can do a lot of this by dry firing with a target on your wall at home and squeeze the trigger.

Getting your speed back if you were fast with irons takes some time.I still have days where I miss but I rarely hit black, I consider outside the circles a miss. Want to get back to .20 spit times between shots or sub .20 shots that is where the 17,000 rounds gets you.

To be honest every gun I use for personal/home defense is equipped with a red dot. 5.56 AR is a Eotech, 9mmPCC is a Bushnell and my handguns are all RMR's. I can hit steel at 200 yards with all 3 of these but the pistol at 200 is a slower shot, rifles it is one after another.

I am all in on the red dot. Only iron sighted pistols I can shoot this well and fast are my Beretta's as well as the Glocks and M&P's but the dot makes it so much faster. Should some event take out all electronics I have at least one back up sight for each weapon already pre sighted in and stored in a double Faraday cage.

It was a lot of work to get to this point with it but it is worth it. Once you make the switch avoid going back to irons very often and if you do do it after you are done with the dot for the day. I plan on eventually getting railed versions of the M-9 and switching it to a dot as well.

 

[338lapua]

As for dot sights I am faster with a Vortex Venom as I am consistent with .15 splits between shots. BUT and this is a BIG BUT the Vortex is absolutely unreliable. I had the first one malfunctioning within 3 range sessions and to the point it turned off between every shot in under two months. That said if they could make that sight that doesn't break on a drop and I can get a life of over 20,000 rounds before failure I would go back to it, it is that much faster to acquire the dot and follow ups are lightning fast. Sadly I just can't deal with something that unreliable or prone to damage upon dropping.

 

[338lapua]

I have added dot torture/call the shot to my twice weekly sessions. I start from holstered and someone calls the shot and I draw and put the number of called shots in each dot. It includes two magazine changes as well. This is done from 3-10 yards, this was a 5 yard target, 45 shots. I type up a bunch of different sheets with different shots called and whoever I am working with calls my shots and I call theirs. Eventually I will do it at 3,5,7 and 10 yards moving back and forth between distances.

 

[Ranger1]

Cmore sights as far as I know make the biggest viewing screen RMR on the market.