Can I by law have a Medical Marijuana card and have firearms?

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In the last year iv been looking into changing medications and leaning towards medical marijuana. Seems safer then prescription Meds.
If I take that route, is my gun rights at stake?
 
sure if you wanna lie on your fed application form during purchase.



and of course everything on the internet is real and truthful.

jmo
RJ
 
knockonit said:
sure if you wanna lie on your fed application form during purchase.



and of course everything on the internet is real and truthful.

jmo
RJ



just in case one might be slow, this is an attempt at sarcasm.
 
I think I read a story where Calif (I know this is AZ but...) cross referenced their MM card database with their Gun Owner database and then went knocking on doors (maybe they sent out a letter first) I don't recall if they went knocking at 3am or not...
It is against federal law to have both because it is considered admission that you are a habitual drug user. IIRC the feds are pressuring the states to turn over any info they have on their subjects.
 
Well, the feds don't seem to be all that interested in taking away opiate addict's self defense tools, why should they infringe on a weed consumer.

I guess the Legal Pot Industry needs to put some of their cash flow into some high dollar lobbyists.
 
TheRifleman said:
Let the misinformation flow once again...

really? what misinformation are you referring to? and what do you have to add to the subject ???

If I had the time I would look it up and post links, however recently I happened to see this exact thing addressed in an article in SAR magazine Vol 20 #1 page 16 (Jan.2016). This was before Sessions was sworn in and if you have been paying attention he has said it is still against Fed law and isn't giving a pass to those states that have legalized it. It really doesn't affect me so I may have a couple details wrong but overall I'm sure I'm right.

here, if you believe the news media, read these before you answer...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...rijuana-patients-cant-buy-guns/?noredirect=on

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/oklahoma-medical-marijuana-or-guns/

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2018/01/medical_marijuana_patients_mus.html

so maybe it was Hawaii... but I'm sure I read somewhere Kalif was doing it too.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017...lan-confiscate-guns-all-medical-marijuana-use

coming to a state near you... I guess Illinois tried it too.
https://merryjane.com/news/hawaii-medical-marijuana-gun-ownership-controversy
 
lOL, getting valid gun rights information that is truly real on a gun site is well, like asking your neighborhood bartender about your impending law suit

ca'mon, we all know you can quote this, that, but if i was in the need to know, its simple to go to atf, or call and discuss with agent, in regards this.

Its item 12 or 13 on the form, do you use mary jane, or other drugs. lie and go to jail, tell the truth, and go to jail and loose yer stuff, it is only true if you get caught.

so the moral is. : its only against the law if you get caught.

there
Rj
 
knockonit said:
...

so the moral is. : its only against the law if you get caught.

there
Rj

so true today, with so many laws your gonna hang for something... We used to call that NY law
(or whatever state you lived in at the time0
 
Harrier said:
TheRifleman said:
Let the misinformation flow once again...

really? what misinformation are you referring to? and what do you have to add to the subject ???

If I had the time I would look it up and post links, however recently I happened to see this exact thing addressed in an article in SAR magazine Vol 20 #1 page 16 (Jan.2016). This was before Sessions was sworn in and if you have been paying attention he has said it is still against Fed law and isn't giving a pass to those states that have legalized it. It really doesn't affect me so I may have a couple details wrong but overall I'm sure I'm right.

here, if you believe the news media, read these before you answer...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...rijuana-patients-cant-buy-guns/?noredirect=on

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/oklahoma-medical-marijuana-or-guns/

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2018/01/medical_marijuana_patients_mus.html

so maybe it was Hawaii... but I'm sure I read somewhere Kalif was doing it too.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017...lan-confiscate-guns-all-medical-marijuana-use

coming to a state near you... I guess Illinois tried it too.
https://merryjane.com/news/hawaii-medical-marijuana-gun-ownership-controversy

Yes, because the Washington Post is valid legal authority. Why don't you check out what happened in Hawaii about 3 days after the article you posted. The NV case has absolutely nothing to do with how she answered the questions on the form, and everything to do with the FFL's duty under the ATF guidance. I'd say read the case, but based on your pathetic display of reading comprehension in other posts, it wouldn't do much good. There's a difference between having a marijuana card and being a user - the court decision clearly stated as much. Not all users are card holders and not all card holders are users.
 
All criminality is dependent upon getting caught but to answer Rifleman:

Yes having an MMC preempts your right to buy a firearm AND MORE!

ATF changed the 4473 to include the following language:

“Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.”

The 9th circus court, which Arizona falls under also ruled on the question,

The 9th Federal Circuit Court has upheld the ATF’s interpretation on possession of a medical marijuana card as “intermediate proof” that you have no right to possess, transfer or purchase firearms and ammunition .


For the untrained eye, when they gave that ruling they said no “right to possess FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION.

That also preempts private sales and possession until somone gets that ruling changed by SCOTUS.

If you've got the money to take it there, have at it. I have a piss-ant suit going in AZ and I can tell you that I don't have the money to play in low level federal court system much less SCOTUS.
 
"The panel held that plaintiff’s Second Amendment claims did not fall within the direct scope of United States v. Dugan, 657 F.3d 998 (9th Cir. 2011), which held that the Second Amendment does not protect the rights of unlawful drug users to bear arms. Taking plaintiff’s allegations in her first amended complaint as true – that she chose not to use medical marijuana – the panel concluded that plaintiff was not actually an unlawful drug user."

You're answering a question that was not asked. The question was, "Can I by law have a Medical Marijuana card and have firearms?" Simply having a mmj card does not make you an unlawful drug user. Those aren't my words, they aren't the words of some quack journalist playing lawyer, those are the words of three circuit Court of appeals judges.

The case has been published - read it. It's pretty clear what was and wasn't decided. There are many articles out there that either intentionally or unintentionally misstate the facts, many of which routinely get cited in forums, which is what prompted my original comment.
 
TheRifleman said:
You're answering a question that was not asked. The question was, "Can I by law have a Medical Marijuana card and have firearms?" Simply having a mmj card does not make you an unlawful drug user. Those aren't my words, they aren't the words of some quack journalist playing lawyer, those are the words of three circuit Court of appeals judges.

The 9th Federal Circuit Court has upheld the ATF’s interpretation on possession of a medical marijuana card as “intermediate proof” that you have no right to possess, transfer or purchase firearms and ammunition.

For the untrained eye, when they gave that ruling they said no “right to possess FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION”.

No right to possess seems pretty clear to me. If you find a different quote from the ruling publish it.

I will be happy to be proven wrong. Until then as much as I hate to say it, I will abide by the 9th Circus court ruling.
 
What ^^ he said ^^...

In the example cited above, the case Wilson v Lynch, (which is IMO quoted somewhat out-of-context and not really relevant to the OP's question).

The way I read it was that essentially... She claimed several of her constitutional rights were violated when she was denied the purchase of a gun because the FFL was aware of her MM card and the ATF's Open Letter... the court said her various claims didn't apply and she wasn't harmed therefore she had no right to sue, they dismissed the case, so she appealed.

The Appeals Court upheld the original NV District Court decision to dismiss the case because the court determined the plaintiff didn't have standing to sue. I didn't see anywhere that they ruled on her ability to have a MM card and possess guns at the same time.

The appeals court agreed with the first court and described why, mentioning that she didn't admit to either using MJ or Possessing a gun so she was not in danger of criminal prosecution. They further stated that she also didn't fit within the scope of a previous case ruled on by the 9th circus. In over 30 pages of opinion, they go thru every claim of rights infringement she made and dismiss them one by one and cite various applicable cases and the reasons why. They also cite what NV state MM law is, how one goes about getting a NV MM card, and steps to renew it yearly, what position the ATF takes on MM, the Open Letter sent to FFLs and the specifics of her attempt and denial to buy a gun... so all the circumstances are pretty clear for anyone with a higher level of reading comprehension and the patience to go thru it all.

Personally, I'm not sure I believe her claim that she obtained the card as a political protester supporting others rights and that she didn't really use the substance.... but its possible I suppose, anyway the court took her at her word and that was included in the reasoning why the various laws didn't do her any harm. However I wonder what causes a person go to all the trouble and expense to get a Dr to prescribe a MM card, renew it every year and then claim they were only a political protester and never actually used it.... This also brings up questions of medical malpractice, fraudulent filing of state forms, are there dispenser records, etc.

She claimed Title 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(3), 27 C.F.R. § 478.11 (which is definitions used in the rest of the title) and the ATF "open letter" to FFL's infringed on her various rights.. the panel indicates on Pages 14-15 that she is prohibited from buying a gun by that title's definitions but it doesn't prevent her from possessing one previously acquired before getting her MM card, therefore it doesn't harm her. I don't think they are commenting on her blanket right to possess, but on how the specific definitions don't apply to her claim of injury
It seems a little confusing that they indicate she could have possession of previously owned firearms if purchased before getting a MM card, and then they say " ...Wilson could acquire firearms and exercise her right to self-defense at any time by surrendering her registry card..." .

Although they indicate she could restore her rights to buy & use a gun, by surrendering the MM card, it seems they are implying that she can't possess (use) one while having the MM card, but they don't actually say that, nor what is the status of her or the guns from the time she acquires a MM card until she gives it up.
Nowhere do I see them saying here possession of a MM card and a gun at the same time is OK as long as she isn't a user. I think someone needs to go back and re-read the entire opinion if that was the implication...

and since a link wasn't provided for others to read for themselves... here is the link (and I also attached the pdf)

https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2016/08/31/14-15700.pdf

...oh yeah... and Bill said he didn't inhale, so I believe him.
 

Attachments

Not sure what country you love in, but here in the US we don't make laws telling us what we can do before we can do it - we look to laws to determine what we can't do. The ATF has not, and cannot, issue any lawful regulations to prevent someone from BUYING a firearm simply because they have a marijuana card. There aren't laws stating as such either. Having a marijuana card does not make you an unlawful user of drugs. So what exactly is preventing a mmj card holder from purchasing a firearm?

You claim the NV case states as much, but in that process you draw an inference (based on who knows what) that the panel implies she's a prohibited possessor. The case is about the ATF's ability to restrict sales from FFL's to people they are aware have a mmj card. As part of that analysis, they repeatedly say the mere possession of a mmj card does not make you an unlawful drug user/ prohibited possessor. The ATF letter prevents the sale of a firearm to a person they are aware is in possession of a mmj card. Notice it stops short of saying a person who is in possession of a card should check the unlawful user box - they simply state an unlawful user should check that box. If the FFL isn't aware of the card, then the letter doesn't apply. If the letter doesn't apply and the person is not an unlawful drug user, then there's nothing preventing the purchase of the firearm. No court needs to tell us it's ok.

"By citing to the link between unlawful drug users and
violence in this case, however, the Government incorrectly
conflates registry cardholders with unlawful drug users.
While these two categories of people overlap, they are not
identical."

"With respect to Wilson, this inquiry is straightforward:
because Wilson insists that she is not an unlawful drug user,
a convicted felon, or a mentally-ill person, she is not a person
historically prohibited from possessing firearms under the
Second Amendment. Accordingly, by preventing Wilson
from purchasing a firearm, 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(3), 27 C.F.R.
§ 478.11, and the Open Letter directly burden her core
Second Amendment right to possess a firearm..."

The federal statute outlawing the purchase of a firearm by a drug user (922(g)(3)) is the exact same statute as the one outlawing the possession of firearms. It's impossible to be a lawful possessor but an unlawful purchaser. If she was prohibited from purchasing a firearm, the court's analysis would have ended right there.
 
Ah, but the person is an unlawful user if they have a medical marijuana card. Why? Because of the statement on Form 4473 11.e

Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?

Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal Law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medical or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.

Therefore, if you check the "no" box, you're in violation of Federal law. If you check yes, you're denied. Take your pick.

There is absolutely no ambiguity in this at all. It's very clear.
 
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