Best caliber for pistol cal carbine?

[hairygreek]

Been waiting a long time to get a pistol caliber carbine of some kind. I know most guns are 9mm, but there are .40 and .45 options as well. I have more 9mm than anything but could always trade it.

Which caliber do you all think is best for a PCC application?



BTW I wish the cheapest FN PS90 ammo wasn't nearly as much as bulk .308...

 

[harleypower69]

I have both Mini Uzi and HK in 9mm. Have been looking at the B&T 45 as viable candidate.

 

[hairygreek]

I was looking at the HK USC in .45 but the 20+ round mags look hard to find.

 

[mike400]

Just Picked up a Stern Defense Upper in 9mm and glock mag adaptor. 100% so far even with my registered lower. It would be nice to have a nice 45 or 10mm upper but so far seems too few options and maybe not so reliable.

 

[shooter444]

If an AR type pistol is a possible choice for you, you may want to look into 300BLK.

With near subsonic rounds I find it at an acceptable noise level (without suppressor or ear protection), low recoil, and better penetration than all standard pistol calibers. Uses 223/5.56 brass, standard AR lower assembly, cheap reloading with cast lead bullets and AR 30 round mags (or larger).

It just may fit your needs.

 

[hairygreek]

Yea that sounds like a good idea... but it's just I want a PCC. I've compared a CZ Scorpion and a Krinkov for example, they are about the same size. So are there better tools out there, seems like it, but I've just want a PCC :think:

 

[shooter444]

Sorry about that. I thought yu wanted to head in the SBR direction.So, for me, an AR pistol kinda meets in the middle without the added expense. A standard carbine in 300BLK is always an option, r, a carbine length pistol. Tha t is what I find so satisfying about the AR platform.

I recommended 300BLK because f your interest in a "pistol caliber" carbine, but I have to state one caveat. I dealt with reloading/accurizing this caliber from day one of building it. I came to the conclusion that 300BLK will meet my expectations as a heavy, slow, close quarters caliber/weapon. I have read realoding problems for years, but, mostly about shooters trying to make a light /fast AND heavy/slow caliber. I went with what worked best for me, heavy/slow because of the attributes I stated in my original post.

I would never recommend this caliber for both purposes, since there are SO MANY 30 cal. weapons that can do light/fast projectiles with a whole lot less load development hassles!!!

I am a strong advocate of PENETRATION. Many years ago there was a YOUTUBE video showing 300BLK subs penetrating 1.5" (or 2", can't remember) bullet proof glass, when none of the other standard pistol calibers could. That video substantiated for me the 300BLK's ability to penetrate a target that isn't presenting itself like a paper target.

Best of luck to you, on your decision!

 

[Azbuilder]

Match your side arm if possible and better yet interchangeable mags. Penetration is what I want if l can in a AR pistol/carbine.....so 300Blk is much better than pistol rounds. Expected Use determines much!!!

 

[Bill Poole]

I think the discussion thread is morphing Pistol Caliber Carbine with Carbine Caliber Pistol.

Local clubs run PCC shoots, they are great fun! almost always on the steel pistol targets set up at pistol distances where a rifle round (.223, .300 blk or 100 other calibers) might damage the steel or might have a dangerous ricochet.

Pistol Caliber Carbine means 9mm, .40, .45 .38 spec lever action, that kinda stuff. less expensive, Safe on close steel. NOT rifles calibers.

if you buy factory ammo, .40 and .45 cost the same as .223. 9mm quite a bit less. so to me 9mm made more sense.

the established AR guns, parts, mags, etc for PCC are 9mm, that caliber probably holds 95% of market share and parts availability. .40 and .45 are way less popular I suspect. So if you want to get into PCC to shoot club shoots (Rio, PRGC used to might again, don't know where else they shoot it). I'd say just get a 9mm. Unless you want a real novelty or compatabilty with your pistol is important to you.

(fwiw: I found the RRA 9mm performs poorly with mild ammo like REm UMC, but shoots winch white box great.)

Now, if you want an SBR or an AR pistol (which is sortuva a stand-in for an SBR without a real buttstock for those of us too cheap or impatient to mess with NFA paperwork) for shooting other types of shoots (not PCC) or hunting coyotes etc, then you get that in a rifle/carbine caliber such as .223, that .300 blk would probably be fabulous!

just my biased opinion.

Poole

 

[Flash]

Now, if you want an SBR or an AR pistol (which is sortuva a stand-in for an SBR without a real buttstock for those of us too cheap or impatient to mess with NFA paperwork) for shooting other types of shoots (not PCC) or hunting coyotes etc, then you get that in a rifle/carbine caliber such as .223, that .300 blk would probably be fabulous!

just my biased opinion.

Poole

Or, if you're too impatient to mess with NFA paperwork and you want something in a pistol caliber legal handgun with a brace which can be used to shoulder the weapon according to the ATF, look into a Sig MPX in 9MM. 3 members of my weekly shooting group have them and universally love them.

 

[sonofbp]

I recently picked up a scorpion evo with the b&t side folding brace.
Took it to the range to sight in and test fire.
It was ready to run out of the box, ran flawlessly and never needed to touch the sights
I ran a mix of brass and steel case, it was accurate, consistant, and no gas in the face like the sig mpx I shot before going for teh evo

Oh, and If you get the evo, dont bother with that ar grip adapter, I just sent it back. loose and sloppy cast aluminum airsoft quality P.O.S. :angry-cussingblack:

 

[Suck My Glock]

It depends on who's criteria for "best".

For performance in an autoloader,...10mm is the king. Not many available in this caliber, but this auto pistol caliber gains the most advantage ballistically from longer barrels and becomes nearly a .41mag level thumper.

But for economical plinking,...nothing beats the affordable 9mm. If you reload plain cast ammo, you can get nearly as cheap as premier .22lr ammo. Even if you don't reload, .16 cents per round for bulk cheap FMJ stuff is about the going rate (if you shop for deals).

 

[StarQuester]

Here my thought process regarding PCC’s.


1: EXTAR, AZ company out of Lake Havasu.
https://extarusa.com/ep9.htm

EP9, $420-ish, polymer AR pattern(4lbs), Glock mag with LRBHO. Comes with pistol brace.
EP10 and EP45 models due out later this year, slightly heavier(.50-1.0lb) and more expensive($50-100 more). Both have NP3 plated bolt and chamber, otherwise identical to EP9.


2: STRIBOG, Slovak company(same as Grand Power pistols)
https://grandpower.eu/produkt/stribog-sp9-a1/?lang=en

SP9-A1, looks similar to B&T APC9. Key-mod or M-LOK, full Ambi controls with ability to swap charging handle side to side. Metal BUIS integrated into top rail. Cheap $20 mags/retrofit UZI mags possible. MSRP of $800, street price being around $700. AR pattern trigger, unsure which triggers will work though.
The SP9-A3 version is a delayed roller blowback, non-reciprocating charging handle, and if it comes in at the same price it’s a complete Scorpion EVO killer. All the features(and more) of a $1900 B&T APC9, for less than half the cost. It has yet to be imported though. Currently #1 on my buy list when it’s available.

Have also seen mention of a 9x21mm model, but unsure of any real details.

 

[harleypower69]

Just threw down the cash on a B & T 45 APC. Will update with range report. I think I will be selling my HK SP5K and using the Mini Uzi to fulfill the 9mm role of PDW carbine.

 

[hairygreek]

How do you like the Mini Uzi... is it IMI?

 

[338lapua]

Here my thought process regarding PCC’s.


1: EXTAR, AZ company out of Lake Havasu.
https://extarusa.com/ep9.htm

EP9, $420-ish, polymer AR pattern(4lbs), Glock mag with LRBHO. Comes with pistol brace.
EP10 and EP45 models due out later this year, slightly heavier(.50-1.0lb) and more expensive($50-100 more). Both have NP3 plated bolt and chamber, otherwise identical to EP9.


2: STRIBOG, Slovak company(same as Grand Power pistols)
https://grandpower.eu/produkt/stribog-sp9-a1/?lang=en

SP9-A1, looks similar to B&T APC9. Key-mod or M-LOK, full Ambi controls with ability to swap charging handle side to side. Metal BUIS integrated into top rail. Cheap $20 mags/retrofit UZI mags possible. MSRP of $800, street price being around $700. AR pattern trigger, unsure which triggers will work though.
The SP9-A3 version is a delayed roller blowback, non-reciprocating charging handle, and if it comes in at the same price it’s a complete Scorpion EVO killer. All the features(and more) of a $1900 B&T APC9, for less than half the cost. It has yet to be imported though. Currently #1 on my buy list when it’s available.

Have also seen mention of a 9x21mm model, but unsure of any real details.

I do believe I will order a few Extar guns. Think they are the same guys that started Plum Crazy.

 

[doubletapp]

I have a marlin camp 9, love that rifle

 

[AR-SNIPER-15]

I’m thinking about one of these Glock lowers next. It’s also a local company.
http://www.kearms.com/store/p/846-Billet-KE-9-Lower-Stripped.aspx

 

[338lapua]

Looked into Extar and they are not a AR pattern gun meaning most AR parts will not work including buffer tubes. That would suck after registering as a SBR and now no AR stock can be used unless you make a new tube to their thread pitch and specs to put a stock on. I think this is a stupid mistake they made.

 

[Viper 1-26 INF]

Had one of those Extars come through a few weeks ago. Interesting design, but not one that I think I would purchase. The whole thing is made out of polymer except for bolt & barrel, even the fire control group and takedown pins... I don't feel too confident in a polymer hammer and trigger, and some parts just seem like they would break under heavy/harsh use.