AR15 SBR - What scope

[freefly]

Double tap...

 

[freefly]

Technically he's not. For starters less barrel flex.

It's a minor issue but it still exists, and you are still wrong...and it has nothing to do with "barrel flex", lol.

 

[freefly]

Saying I'm wrong still doesn't make you any more right, lol.

I am right. Barrel length has an effect on BDC. It's a fact, because...ballistics. It might not be a big effect, depending on the amount of deviation from the barrel length that a specific BDC reticle was calibrated with, but it exists nonetheless. If using a 7.5" SBR, with a BDC-reticle scope that was calibrated with a 20" barrel, you will definitely have issues.

This is why .ml-issue ACOGs have different stadia spacing on their BDC reticles for M4 models (14.5" barrel) vs. A4 models (20" barrel), even though both use the same round. And again, the accuracy/usability of a BDC reticle has nothing to do with "barrel flex".

Cute that you left out that link or didn't bother mentioning about it because it's proving that you're incorrect.

Your link simply shows a guy using a LVPO on an SBR in a competition. That is all.
Cute that you think it means anything more. Just own up to be being wrong.

You chastised a poster for posting "bad info" when he suggested a red dot for an SBR for CQB duties, and an LVPO on a longer-barrel rifle, depending on the intended use. There was nothing wrong with that suggestion. Then you proceeded to follow up by posting "bad info" yourself.

 

[freefly]

just like the OP that asked for suggestions for an LPVO, and not a red dot...or he would have asked for one, mr from the internet and here to help.

Huh? The OP made no such distinctions in asking for suggestions.
So I have a suggestion for you:

Learn how to read, or kindly STFU.

 

[freefly]

Please take your own advice, and fess up, and own that you were wrong. A simple Google search shows that the people that are using the LPVO on short barrels from industry professionals to actual users with lots of success are out there, making your augment nothing but a joke based on a bruised ego.

What's "my argument" again? LOL...

I simply made an observation (see post #25), to which you replied with a nonsensical argument about "barrel flex" or some other gibberish. So, you can't even follow your own posts, let alone a simple thread progression.

Try actually reading the posts you are replying to sometime.
You will look like much less of a buffoon when doing so.

There was nothing wrong with an LPVO for CQB, it's already being used by professionals, one of which I linked to showing that your argument counter is a fallacy, showing that all you and the other person have is an opinion, not based from solid expertise.

I never made an "argument counter to" LVPO's being OK here. I suggested them early on.

Learn how to read, or kindly STFU.

The beauty of this system is that there's no wrong answer or wrong way or even a right way..

Then why did you call out the other guy for posting "bad info" if that's the case?

You came to me with a bur in your saddle over some imaginary wrong, not me to you, and that is the actual problem here.

You seem to have an inflated self-image. Sorry, you aren't that important to me. I don't even know who you are, other than some (failing) internet wannabe know-it-all.

I simply made the factual observation that the guy you were criticizing for posting "bad info" actually had a point. Then your "bruised ego" couldn't handle it, and you proceeded with further keyboard vomiting. So, the actual problem is that you are both arrogant and ignorant, while also lacking basic / fundamental reading skills...what a winning combo!

Consider your future posts ignored

Do you promise? LOL, whatever will I do, now that Mr. Self-Important will be ignoring all of my future posts?
I'm crushed! :lol:

because this will go nowhere because you are stubbornly unwilling to learn that there's actually more than your way of doing things

Oh, the irony! And please quote the post where I even alluded to there only being "just my way of doing things". I'll wait.

Though, I will concede that it's impossible to convince someone of anything via written words, when that person is a complete illiterate. So, you got me there...

and I have better things to do over some internet argument that you injected yourself into, uninvited even.

Uninvited? LOL! Sorry, I forgot you were the self-imposed forum sheriff and post marshal. :roll:

 

[QuietM4]

Do you two want to be alone?

 

[TheJediknight]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Cw1ng75KP0

 

[freefly]

Consider your future posts ignored, because this will go nowhere because you are stubbornly unwilling to learn that there's actually more than your way of doing things, and I have better things to do over some internet argument that you injected yourself into, uninvited even.

Hey, I thought you were ignoring all of my future posts?

Do I need to explain what "ignoring" means as well? LOL.

Again: Learn how to read, or kindly STFU.


^^^ Hey look, I found the "BOLD" button too! :dance:

 

[Harrier]

I think the point you are trying to make about different barrel lengths, is that the velocity of the same load will be different, and that is what affects the difference in the effective BDC bullet drop... not the barrel length specifically....
this is another example where velocity is everything...


ETA... This is what I get for not reading all the posts... replying to a one sided argument (the other side is already on my ignore list... as i get it...

 

[freefly]

I think the point you are trying to make about different barrel lengths, is that the velocity of the same load will be different, and that is what affects the difference in the effective BDC bullet drop... not the barrel length specifically....
this is another example where velocity is everything...

Zactly.

Lots of factors that determine specific trajectory / drop: Bc, bullet weight, drag, atmospheric conditions/altitude, aaaand initial VELOCITY!

All else being equal, longer barrel = more velocity (to a point; there is typically an apogee / plateau, and the velocity increase is often non-linear, with "sweet spots" along the way). Therefore, a BDC reticle that is calibrated / dead-on with specific load out of a 20" barrel is going to be way off with that same load out of a 8" barrel. Not really rocket surgery here, right?

ETA... This is what I get for not reading all the posts...

Sorry, here's the Cliff's Notes version:

OP: Hey what optic is good for an SBR?
Racewin: Depends on barrel length and use. Maybe red dot for CQB and LPVO for longer barrel.
AzAsshat: No! It has nothing to do with barrel length! LPVO is fine for CQB! Look at this internet link proving it! You are posting bad info!
Everyone else: Calm your tits.
Me: Yes, LPVO is fine for SBR, but the guy has a point.
Barrel length can have an effect on a LPVO scope with BDC reticle.
AZAsshat: No he doesn't have a point! And you are wrong, because...less barrel flex!
Oh, and here's that irrelevant link again!
Me: Barrel flex? Are you drunk? Sorry, you are wrong.
AZAsshat: Uh, just because I am wrong doesn't mean you are right, errrr, I mean uhhhh, potato!
Me: Are you having a stroke? Here, let me try to explain why BDC reticles are effected by....
AZAsshat: You are wrong! LPVO fine for CQB! Didn't you see the link I posted proving it!!!
Me: Jesus Christ...looks like we have a bona-fine window-licker here.
AZAsshat: I am ignoring all of your future posts! And you were not even invited here!
ME: LOL...

And SCENE...

the other side is already on my ignore list... as i get it...

Wise choice.

 

[QuietM4]

I wish there was a “like” button for posts....

 

[Tim McBride]

Geez. To clarify things for the children in the room.

Optics are a matter of preference if we are discussing Red Dot v. LPVO. More then anything you need to actually use what you get. I am of the opinion that red dots are easier to use for a new shooter and the lack of parallax plus large eye box is a big positive in typical HD scenarios.

BDC reticles are exactly what one poster mentioned, they are calibrated for a specific barrel length and a specific load. Using a different barrel length and/or loading (then the BDC was designed around) will result in subpar performance. The further you get from what it was designed around the worse it will be.

 

[Harrier]

Somewhere along the line someone mentioned CQB... don't know where that came in but AFAIC the red dot is far superior for that scenario... and any BDC POI differences will also not amount to squat at CQB distances (25yd or less).
Hell, even iron sights should be GTG at that range...
Where accuracy will typically fall off with the Red dot and pick-up with the LPVO... will be past 50yds out to 100, and where the load and velocity will make a noticeable difference with a BDC reticle will be about 100-200 yds, 300 fer sure.

 

[veteran1981]

Depending on what barrel length sbr
10-11 inch go a red dot
Aimpoint is my go to.
If you want an lpvo then a 1-4 is a good choice
Know a few guys that run both, just depends on the intended use. Red dot definitely has more advantage in quick shooting

 

[Tim McBride]

What advantage? Weight? If that's super important to the user, then I'd agree, go for the red dot. But f any astigmatism is at play and doesn't think that the extra weight is anything bad, then the LPVO is superior as those that are illuminated don't give issues to those with astigmatism.

But this thread was about what scope, not what red dot, and people took it too far trying to persuade not to get a red dot.

Saw a post on Facebook that BCM shared from Kyle Defoor part of hs everyday tools is an AR pistol with a 1-6 Razor. Pretty sure he knows more about the subject than hobbyists that got their jimmies n a wad over it, because they'd rather argue about it rather than gong out and shoot or courses to actually learn something.

But I digress. The beauty of the AR is that there's no wrong answer or wrong way to go about it. We should be supportive, not seeking to change people from doing things with kit that we don't approve of.

Kyle Defoor likely has multitudes more trigger time then any of us here. He likely would outperform any of us with an A1 carbine. Just because a SF guy uses something doesn't mean it's the right tool for the average gun owner who will never shoot more then a few hundred rounds a year; and for most those rounds will not be shot in any formal setting, whether it's competition or training. I think we need to be careful on why we recommend something.

 

[Harley66]

Vote for red dot

 

[tlieberman240]

im putting an elcan specter on my SBR. Was thinking of getting a eotech EXPS3.0 but fell into an elcan

While I prefer red dots, I know some cool people who are doing cool things in various places and many of them enjoy using the Elcans on SBRs. Typically 11.5 or 12.5 length and some type of offset red dot. I haven’t tried it so I can’t comment, but it sounds interesting.