2011s

[G34]

Getting into the 2011s. Looking for other options besides staccato. Since it’s such an investment I know the hands on experience is limited.

Anyone have experience with the Vudoo priest, stealth arms platypus or the masterpiece arms hybrid ?
Thx

 

[Joe_Blacke]

How about a Dan Wesson DWX?

I picked one up recently. I like it better than any other 2011 I’ve tried.

 

[mtptwo]

Tisas is much less expensive. Consider them entry level.

 

[DuneShoot]

Tisas gets great reviews. I have their 9mm 1911 and it's excellent.
Staccato is also awesome.

 

[paulgt2164]

And there is the Springfield Prodigy. I have one - and have put ~2k rounds through it and it has been great. I actually had it out today and put another few hundred through it with a friend. I paid ~1300 for a 5" model last year. Unlike many of the youtube clickbaits - I have had zero issues out of it, and the 4 20rd and 2 26rd mags I have for it.

After ~1.5k rounds I did some upgrades (EGW ignition kit, Atlas trigger / shoe / tool-less guide rod, EGW magwell) and it is pretty slick. I like it, and even after upgrades it was cheaper than quite a few 2011s.

 

[Suck My Glock]

And there is the Springfield Prodigy. I have one - and have put ~2k rounds through it and it has been great. I actually had it out today and put another few hundred through it with a friend. I paid ~1300 for a 5" model last year. Unlike many of the youtube clickbaits - I have had zero issues out of it, and the 4 20rd and 2 26rd mags I have for it.

After ~1.5k rounds I did some upgrades (EGW ignition kit, Atlas trigger / shoe / tool-less guide rod, EGW magwell) and it is pretty slick. I like it, and even after upgrades it was cheaper than quite a few 2011s.

I picked one up at the Glendale gun show last year for just $1000 and have similarly had no functional issues. My problem, however, is with Springfield Armory's customer support and the aftermarket's lack of options.

From the factory, the Prodigy comes with an RMR mounting plate cover that has just the rear sight but sits in place of the RMR, just providing a continuity of contour and shape for the slide, as well as one that allows for the mounting of the RMR. However, part of the reason I paid significantly under the going price for a Prodigy is because mine was missing the iron sight only plate and came with only the RMR already mounted. I hate RMRs because they are the work of the devil and cause more problems than they solve, so my intention was to pull that sucker off, get replacement iron sight plate from Springfield Armory and find whomever makes tritium sights to fit this model and put those on. But Springfield doesn't list the iron sight plate for sale as a spare part, and refuses to respond to my requests to sell me one. Even worse, NOBODY who manufactures tritium sights list any units designed to fit the Prodigy. I mean WTF?! Seriously?

 

[Gatsby]

Stacatto XC DPO 9mm 816781017539 was about $4,500 but is an absolute masterpiece of craftsmanship. My nephew has one, but I could not bring myself to cough up that much cash.

I briefly had and sold a prodigy and was unimpressed; I had a ton of issues with it. It may be me. I'm a 1911 guy and have been my whole life (Springfield TRP with 40K+), but my son in law and son both had issues with it too.

The Tisas double stack just recently came out and I paid $799 (Tombstone), ordered a couple mags, slapped a brake and red dot on it and I absolutely love it. Only about 1K through it right now, but I've only had it a couple weeks. One thing I appreciate about it is that the rear sight is not on the plate so you can mount a dot and keep the sights, which is important to me. I'm trying - hard - to learn to use a dot but I'm painfully slow compared to irons.

https://tombstonetactical.com/product/tisas-1911-9mm-5-night-stalker-or-gray-2-17rd

I'm very happy with this thing but once more want to reiterate that it has an extremely low round count and short duration of ownership.

 

[QuietM4]

If you don't want a Staccato (but once, cry once, and thank me later), the Prodigy is a nice mid-range option. Not too bad out of the box, but I'd recommend replacing all the MIM trigger parts with an EGW Ignition Kit. Trigger will drop to about 3.5lbs, much faster and crisper reset. An Atlas flat trigger is also very nice.

Wright Armory is doing some really sweet porting on Prodigy pistols, they just posted one on their Instagram a few days ago that looked awesome.

By the time you buy a Prodigy and drop an EGW kit into it, you will be at about $1600, if you can do the work yourself. Still less than a Staccato, but still not quite as nice.

If it's a "project" gun for you, maybe try the MAC or Tisas clones...they look nice.

But a Staccato is a just better out of the box.

 

[G34]

Maybe it’s just my luck and the group I run with. We’ve had so many issues with staccato. Mostly the optic plates coming loose. Has anyone run a Bul Armory.

A friend has a prodigy and it’s nice for the price but you can feel the lack of refinement between it and the staccato

 

[Abbey]

I was checking out a Staccato XL and an Atlas Artemis side by side at Pistol Parlour a couple months back. The Atlas was really nice, but I don't think it is 2x nicer than the Staccato to deserve the $7500 price. I just can't spend that much money on something that isn't full auto and doesn't appreciate in value like machine guns. My thought process is that I'd only enjoy it marginally more than the XL. And if I ever want to sell it, it's really hard to find someone who will spend $7k on a used gun. So I let that one pass.

I'm still thinking about the XL. My hesitation there is that I already have a bunch of single-action range toys and there are still some 2011 quirks that I'd like to see changed in a future design. Like the fact that Staccatos are all 9mm but still use .38 Super length mags, forcing a larger than necessary grip size. Now that they have the new C out with the 9mm designed mags, I wonder if they will eventually move their whole line to the new mags to enable smaller grip sizes? An XL with 17-20rd 9mm optimized mags and no grip safety would be perfect.

Hmm... sounds like maybe I do need a DWX. Anyone know of any in stock?

 

[thom]

Tisas was talked about alot here as an entry level 9mm. Have they had any changes to make them better or are they still bargain basement?

 

[BigNate]

Maybe it’s just my luck and the group I run with. We’ve had so many issues with staccato. Mostly the optic plates coming loose. Has anyone run a Bul Armory.

A friend has a prodigy and it’s nice for the price but you can feel the lack of refinement between it and the staccato

This is absolutely NOT from direct experience with the Staccato - so please don't think that it is.

My understanding is that the Staccato is the most popular / common 2011 in competition use. Sometimes the "common failure" tag on a product can come from the reality is that there are more of those products in play than any other, so when there is an issue it gets a lot of press. Not defending Staccato - just saying that this can happen and if it were me - I'd get to real numbers on those failures and find out whether Staccato has found root cause and fixed it in current versions before writing it off.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[smithers599]

You've probably heard by now that Staccato is making a new model that uses Glock magazines. I'm guessing they are trying to get into the police market.

 

[Suck My Glock]

If you ever have a conversation with Nelson Ford or another skilled 1911 gunsmith who does performance packages on them,...they will tell you all the reasons why certain brands are preferred by them over others. And it comes down to the quality of the base materials they are made out of and suitable they are or ease with which they can be carved on for customization and improvement. We are talking about more than just forged vs. cast parts (forged are superior), but also the particular grades of steel used and the skill of heat treating applied to them.

Using quality forged steels is obviously more expensive. But one thing that can mitigate this is if the steel is produced in a region known for cheap labor. This is why the famous Norinco 1911s from the 80s and 90s were so sought out by customizers. You could get one for hundreds less than a Colt, but at their core, they were made of appropriate material upon which to spend the dollars required to make a custom race gun. And if you didn't have an obsession with with buying American or any other moral objection,...the Norincos were a great deal. Turkish-made Tisas is proving to be much like that today.

 

[Abbey]

You've probably heard by now that Staccato is making a new model that uses Glock magazines. I'm guessing they are trying to get into the police market.

That is interesting, hadn't seen this yet. No grip safety, better mags than typical overpriced 2011s, and one of the models even has a sight block. I'll have to check these out to see how I like the grip.

 

[QuietM4]

You've probably heard by now that Staccato is making a new model that uses Glock magazines. I'm guessing they are trying to get into the police market.

That is interesting, hadn't seen this yet. No grip safety, better mags than typical overpriced 2011s, and one of the models even has a sight block. I'll have to check these out to see how I like the grip.

Staccato has been in the police market for a while now; plenty of Phoenix and Tempe PD officers carry them. The Glock mag is more of a marketing ploy to get more of the 'but duz it take Glock magz?' crowd. A 2011 magazine carries more rounds in the same length of magazine. To those who complain about magazine price; buying a $2,500 pistol and then complaining about a $90 magazine, is like buying a Ferrari and then complaining about how much premium gas costs. No LE department has the budget to provide a $2,000+ pistol to an officer...they are bought by individual officers at a 30% discount.

Yes, there are a lot of Glock magazines. Yes, they are cheap. No, they are not better than a Staccato magazine...they are different.

 

[Suck My Glock]

You've probably heard by now that Staccato is making a new model that uses Glock magazines. I'm guessing they are trying to get into the police market.

That is interesting, hadn't seen this yet. No grip safety, better mags than typical overpriced 2011s, and one of the models even has a sight block. I'll have to check these out to see how I like the grip.

Staccato has been in the police market for a while now; plenty of Phoenix and Tempe PD officers carry them. The Glock mag is more of a marketing ploy to get more of the 'but duz it take Glock magz?' crowd. A 2011 magazine carries more rounds in the same length of magazine. To those who complain about magazine price; buying a $2,500 pistol and then complaining about a $90 magazine, is like buying a Ferrari and then complaining about how much premium gas costs. No LE department has the budget to provide a $2,000+ pistol to an officer...they are bought by individual officers at a 30% discount.

Yes, there are a lot of Glock magazines. Yes, they are cheap. No, they are not better than a Staccato magazine...they are different.

M4 is spot on with this. The only thing I would argue is that,...for some departments,...the issue of magazine intercompatibility. When all your officers carry the same pistol,...if need be, they can share spare magazines in a shooting if it should come to that. How often does that happen? Is it often enough or likely enough to even be concerned with? Well, if you are a department that determines it is a legitimate concern, but also a department that has previously allowed qualified officers to carry their personally supplied custom 1911s and 2011s,...you might be willing to make a new stipulation that all pistols must use the same magazine, allowing officers to choose their own option that complies with the policy. I think it is incredibly unlikely for a situation to benefit from such. And yet, the Hollywood bank robbery shootout in 1997 is an example where that would have been appreciated by the officers involved in that. Plenty of officers ran dry on their personal ammo, and some carried Berettas, while some carried S&W autos and others still had revolvers. At least a couple of those officers had their butts hanging in the breeze because other officers couldn't hand them a compatible spare mag to allow them to defend themselves. Has anything like that happened anywhere since? I don't know. I can't think of one.

 

[QuietM4]

The problem with the LA bank robbery shoutout wasn’t that officers carried different types of pistols, it was they didn’t have RIFLES.

 

[Suck My Glock]

The problem with the LA bank robbery shoutout wasn’t that officers carried different types of pistols, it was they didn’t have RIFLES.

That was the PRIMARY problem, yes. But the mag compatibility issue was indeed a complication.

 

[Abbey]

My problem with 2011 mags isn’t the price (although cheaper than $100 Atlas mags for reliability is nice) so much as the designs. Many 2011 mags have reliability issues and the design based on legacy .38 Super lengths dictates larger grip diameters that are a bit bigger than I prefer.

I’m sure I’ll buy one at some point but the mags/grip just aren’t quite there for me.