A funny thing happened while getting my CCW Permit...

[trailboss60]

While maybe not funny, but kind of sad.

I have had a concealed Carry Permit for years, but during Covid, I missed the date for renewing my permit and it went past the grace period, so I rolled with constitutional carry, but travelling out of state/ buying firearms I would prefer to have the permit.

I finally decided to pull the trigger and get permitted again, which required taking a four-hour class.
The class started out with a presentation of a prepaid legal defense plan.
The instructor opened the class with a video taken at a hotel parking lot where a 24-year-old punk emerged with full body armor (North PHX off Happy valley Road) and just started attempting to stack bodies up. He shot at a car that pulled in, killed the driver and the other three occupants high tailed it out of there.

By the time it was done, and a cop took the trash out the trash had expended over 200 rounds of ammo.

The instructor said: Ok, you are there, you have a permit, and you have your sidearm, what would you do?

I immediately said that I would get away as fast as possible (keep in mind, no one was close to the guy...the only people fleeing were across the parking lot).

I heard about four or five voices behind me say "I would shoot him"

The instructor never did say what the proper response would be and went on with the class explaining what is a justified, and what is an unjustified shoot, and the legal ramifications someone will find themselves in should they find themselves in the gravest extreme. etc, etc, etc...
The class ended with him doing the hard sell on prepaid legal defense insurance that was really pricey, I am familiar with other organizations that provides expert testimony by household names should they be needed and plans that seem pretty solid.

Anyway... he never did say what the best response would be...if you are facing a guy across a parking lot and he has a long gun in semi-auto, tactical helmet, body armor, and I have a pistol I am going to boogie out of there and let the boys in blue handle it...exacting a long shot to the face, at night, with a handgun under stress can happen, but I am not in a hurry to bet on that skill set if I have the opportunity to get out of Dodge.

Anyway...some of the answers and questions made me cringe, it was obvious based on the responses, that so many had no clue, and probably did not do any learning prior to the class. if I was teaching the class I would have said, "OK you are getting your permit, the next thing that you need to do is get some training by professional instructors muy pronto and educate yourselves." But...he never said that, and in my opinion did a disservice to the class.

A high ratio of the class were handing over their applications and credit cards, I sure would not want to be underwriting that crowd.

[kenpoprofessor]

While maybe not funny, but kind of sad.

I have had a concealed Carry Permit for years, but during Covid, I missed the date for renewing my permit and it went past the grace period, so I rolled with constitutional carry, but travelling out of state/ buying firearms I would prefer to have the permit.

I finally decided to pull the trigger and get permitted again, which required taking a four-hour class.
The class started out with a presentation of a prepaid legal defense plan.
The instructor opened the class with a video taken at a hotel parking lot where a 24-year-old punk emerged with full body armor (North PHX off Happy valley Road) and just started attempting to stack bodies up. He shot at a car that pulled in, killed the driver and the other three occupants high tailed it out of there.

By the time it was done, and a cop took the trash out the trash had expended over 200 rounds of ammo.

The instructor said: Ok, you are there, you have a permit, and you have your sidearm, what would you do?

I immediately said that I would get away as fast as possible (keep in mind, no one was close to the guy...the only people fleeing were across the parking lot).

I heard about four or five voices behind me say "I would shoot him"

The instructor never did say what the proper response would be and went on with the class explaining what is a justified, and what is an unjustified shoot, and the legal ramifications someone will find themselves in should they find themselves in the gravest extreme. etc, etc, etc...
The class ended with him doing the hard sell on prepaid legal defense insurance that was really pricey, I am familiar with other organizations that provides expert testimony by household names should they be needed and plans that seem pretty solid.

Anyway... he never did say what the best response would be...if you are facing a guy across a parking lot and he has a long gun in semi-auto, tactical helmet, body armor, and I have a pistol I am going to boogie out of there and let the boys in blue handle it...exacting a long shot to the face, at night, with a handgun under stress can happen, but I am not in a hurry to bet on that skill set if I have the opportunity to get out of Dodge.

Anyway...some of the answers and questions made me cringe, it was obvious based on the responses, that so many had no clue, and probably did not do any learning prior to the class. if I was teaching the class I would have said, "OK you are getting your permit, the next thing that you need to do is get some training by professional instructors muy pronto and educate yourselves." But...he never said that, and in my opinion did a disservice to the class.

A high ratio of the class were handing over their applications and credit cards, I sure would not want to be underwriting that crowd.

I'm gonna say at least half the class didn't even know the four rules, was that covered? There are 100's of "instructors" that barely know the difference between a revolver and a semi auto pistol. They aren't as "trained" as they'd probably like to think. It seems the "instructor" was more interested in his take of the insurance sales than actually doing a CCW class. Best you can do is give a bad review on Yelp or Google and try to keep others from these shenanigans.

BTW,the scenario you presented is a pretty easy choice, you run until you are protected, it's really that simple. If other people are shot, and they weren't under your wing of protection, oh well. And if they didn't shoot back, well, that's on them for not being armed, and believing the world is safe and police will protect them. Ignorance and apathy can sometimes get you killed, Darwin won.

Yep, the cold, bitter and jagged pill of truth.

Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day

Clyde

[trailboss60]

I could not agree more!

[QuietM4]

Sounds like more of a sales pitch meeting and less of a CCW course...this is the unintended consequence of lowering the bar when it comes to CCW instructors.

As much as I like the idea of Constitutional Carry, I like the idea of well informed CCW permit holders more.

[Joe_Blacke]

Why not just use your expired permit to satisfy the training requirement?

[mallic]

Why not just use your expired permit to satisfy the training requirement?

There is a grace period on that, but if it's too long expired the state makes you take the course again.

[any4xx]

Ugh… Same here.
I've been carrying with a permit for about 45 years. When I moved to AZ I decided to go through their permit process. My instructor was okay, but the class was definitely set up more to sell carry insurance than to train you in any way.

[SupportTheSecond]

Had a great class when I took it at Diamondback Sports in Tucson. No sales pitch nonsense just good info on laws and scenario examples like this one. Our class was eight hours though. The instructor we had used a similar example and he advised us unless you or your family's lives were in direct danger then retreat to a safe location.

[Joe_Blacke]

Why not just use your expired permit to satisfy the training requirement?

There is a grace period on that, but if it's too long expired the state makes you take the course again.

Nope. You are thinking renewal. They provide instructions on how to get a new permit using an old expired permit to satisfy the marksmanship requirement.

If you still have your old expired permit, you submit that to get a new permit (not a renewal).

I didn’t have a current permit for almost 10 years. But I used the old expired one as evidence, rather than take a class again.

[trailboss60]

Why not just use your expired permit to satisfy the training requirement?

There is a grace period on that, but if it's too long expired the state makes you take the course again.

Nope. You are thinking renewal. They provide instructions on how to get a new permit using an old expired permit to satisfy the marksmanship requirement.

If you still have your old expired permit, you submit that to get a new permit (not a renewal).

I didn’t have a current permit for almost 10 years. But I used the old expired one as evidence, rather than take a class again.

Sounds like you got lucky.


https://www.azdps.gov/sites/default/fil ... cation.pdf

[any4xx]

Marksmanship requirement?

[Joe_Blacke]

There is a grace period on that, but if it's too long expired the state makes you take the course again.

Nope. You are thinking renewal. They provide instructions on how to get a new permit using an old expired permit to satisfy the marksmanship requirement.

If you still have your old expired permit, you submit that to get a new permit (not a renewal).

I didn’t have a current permit for almost 10 years. But I used the old expired one as evidence, rather than take a class again.

Sounds like you got lucky.


https://www.azdps.gov/sites/default/fil ... cation.pdf

That’s the renewal packet.

You need to submit for a new permit (like it’s your first time).

From the DPS site, on obtaining a permit -expired permits:

If an expired permit issued by the Department' is presented as proof that the individual has demonstrated competence with a firearm, the 'permit' they are presenting must be in good standing to be eligible as proof. Revoked permits will not be considered.

[Chris the Mechanic]

I had to require mine in October after it had lapsed a few years and I turned in 2 certificates of mid level courses and received my card. One was a night class I think. I'm always training and just made 2 copies and sent it.

[kenpoprofessor]

You know, I keep hearing about how people aren't getting their CCW on time, and yet, there's a simple solution, a few actually. Return you application via certified/registered mail with signature, they can't deny when they received it, and really don't have a choice in how fast they process yours to stay within the law. I had mine in 8 days after sending it. If you don't take that route, or another that requires a signature, then don't complain if you just "stuffed it in the regular mail". Spend the money and quit bitchin'.


Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day



Clyde

[QuietM4]

If you can tell me what exactly the punishment is for breaking the 60 days in the law, I'd love to know it. They violate it about 50% of the time, judging by how often it comes up here and on every other local message board.