Electronic Safe Keypads & EMP event

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Pinetop
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Electronic Safe Keypads & EMP event

#1

Post by Pinetop »

Perhaps there is an Electronics, Electric, or Nuclear engineer in our group that could address my question.

Given the popularity of gun safes with electronic keypad operation rather that the old dial type manual operator, what is the probability that a safe with a battery operated keypad equipped safe that was kept in a state where the battery was not connected, could survive an EMP attack by Russia, China, or whatever crackpot county wanted to end the world.

So my question would be, when the EMP occurred when no battery was installed in the safe, a day or so after the EMP attack, could we install a new battery, and get the safe open?

This worries me greatly, so your thoughts are much appreciated.


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Doc
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Re: Electronic Safe Keypads & EMP event

#2

Post by Doc »

Mine makes claims it’s EMP proof. I’ll update after the EMP.

Plan accordingly.

Eggs, basket, you know the drill
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Re: Electronic Safe Keypads & EMP event

#3

Post by SupportTheSecond »

Only the older electronic locks are supposed to be a problem. All the newer ones for the most part are hardened against EMP issues. But also many as a back up have a key unlock option so there's that.
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Re: Electronic Safe Keypads & EMP event

#4

Post by campinginaz »

The larger safe stores still carry or can order a safe with a mechanical lock, I don't like the electrical locks at all, they are more likely to go bad in my opinion. I didn't know some are EMP proof like Doc and SupportTheSecond mentioned above. If you have an older electrical lock maybe it can be replaced with a newer one.
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Re: Electronic Safe Keypads & EMP event

#5

Post by iammaxwell »

Are they tested against real EMPs, or is it theoretical (a.k.a. marketing (a.k.a. snake oil))?
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Re: Electronic Safe Keypads & EMP event

#6

Post by QuangTri »

The battery has nothing to do with EMP failures.

The failure comes from a current surge caused by the EMP, which can burn out semiconductors.
This is why old tube type electronics are immune.
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Re: Electronic Safe Keypads & EMP event

#7

Post by Doc »

iammaxwell wrote: May 16th, 2023, 2:08 pm Are they tested against real EMPs, or is it theoretical (a.k.a. marketing (a.k.a. snake oil))?
Idk if it’s worth the digital ink and the online paper it’s written on but here is the claim of the lock I use.

https://www.libertysafe.com/blogs/the-v ... safe-locks

We're also proud to announce that our SecuRam TopLit, SecuRam BackLit, and SecuRam ProLogic safe locks were recently tested and certified as EMP resistant by Dayton T. Brown Laboratories, the largest independent A2LA accredited testing lab in the United States. This is the same lab that tests equipment for the military.
You can rest assured that if an EMP catastrophe strikes, you will be able to get into your safe.
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Re: Electronic Safe Keypads & EMP event

#8

Post by QuangTri »

Note they do not claim what energy density they were tested to, vs. what the military test is.
There are a lot of different levels, depending on what the hardware is, and what level of shielding is present to start with.

May indeed be the same lab. Without the standard and level tested to, does not mean squat.

Being a skeptic, I ordered my liberty with a mechanical lock.
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Re: Electronic Safe Keypads & EMP event

#9

Post by YotaSauce »

I wonder how the test these? Would it be a similar scenario to an actual EMP event? There has to be a difference between a solar event and a manmade EMP. So the testing has to be legit.
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Re: Electronic Safe Keypads & EMP event

#10

Post by Doc »

YotaSauce wrote: May 25th, 2023, 9:40 am I wonder how the test these? Would it be a similar scenario to an actual EMP event? There has to be a difference between a solar event and a manmade EMP. So the testing has to be legit.
It’s prob as legit as Snopes 😂🤣
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Re: Electronic Safe Keypads & EMP event

#11

Post by YotaSauce »

Doc wrote: May 26th, 2023, 6:05 am
YotaSauce wrote: May 25th, 2023, 9:40 am I wonder how the test these? Would it be a similar scenario to an actual EMP event? There has to be a difference between a solar event and a manmade EMP. So the testing has to be legit.
It’s prob as legit as Snopes 😂🤣
Well, finding out the hard way isn't going to be very fun. Here's to hoping! :lol:
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Re: Electronic Safe Keypads & EMP event

#12

Post by Doc »

YotaSauce wrote: May 26th, 2023, 9:11 am
Doc wrote: May 26th, 2023, 6:05 am
YotaSauce wrote: May 25th, 2023, 9:40 am I wonder how the test these? Would it be a similar scenario to an actual EMP event? There has to be a difference between a solar event and a manmade EMP. So the testing has to be legit.
It’s prob as legit as Snopes 😂🤣
Well, finding out the hard way isn't going to be very fun. Here's to hoping! :lol:
I keep one sharp gun out of the safe just incase.
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Re: Electronic Safe Keypads & EMP event

#13

Post by QuangTri »

YotaSauce wrote: May 25th, 2023, 9:40 am I wonder how the test these? Would it be a similar scenario to an actual EMP event? There has to be a difference between a solar event and a manmade EMP. So the testing has to be legit.
The intensity of gamma radiation from a nuke in space certainly is not producible in a lab.

This outfit does do testing using other methods for generating pulses.

https://nts.com/services/testing/emc/el ... e-testing/
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Re: Electronic Safe Keypads & EMP event

#14

Post by Doc »

QuangTri wrote: May 26th, 2023, 2:41 pm
YotaSauce wrote: May 25th, 2023, 9:40 am I wonder how the test these? Would it be a similar scenario to an actual EMP event? There has to be a difference between a solar event and a manmade EMP. So the testing has to be legit.
The intensity of gamma radiation from a nuke in space certainly is not producible in a lab.

This outfit does do testing using other methods for generating pulses.

https://nts.com/services/testing/emc/el ... e-testing/
The Gamma radiation doesn’t do the damage to electrical devices. It does rip electrons off you and me but ionizing radiation doesn’t destroy electronics.

It’s the electromagnetic field that damages the electronics.

Some good info:
The term "electromagnetic pulse" generally excludes optical (infrared, visible, ultraviolet) and ionizing (such as X-ray and gamma radiation) ranges.

But sure, a high altitude blast won’t have me trying to get into the safe, I’ll be busy getting behind my water walls of boronated h2o….oh wait, I left those at work.
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Re: Electronic Safe Keypads & EMP event

#15

Post by QuangTri »

Doc wrote: May 26th, 2023, 3:13 pm The Gamma radiation doesn’t do the damage to electrical devices. It does rip electrons off you and me but ionizing radiation doesn’t destroy electronics.

It’s the electromagnetic field that damages the electronics.
yep, the induced currents blow stuff like a fuse popping.

<snip>
Doc wrote: May 26th, 2023, 3:13 pmI’ll be busy getting behind my water walls of boronated h2o….oh wait, I left those at work.
At the bottom of your pool would be a good spot, but your electronics might not be pleased.

interesting reading about the size of things and vulnerability. Depending on how you take it, a small safe lock box might not be a prime candidate for EMP burnout.
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