Filled Wall for Protection?

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BigNate
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Filled Wall for Protection?

#1

Post by BigNate »

I started to post this in the "replacing the door" thread - but decided not to whore their thread - and start my own.

Years ago I had a conversation with a guy about building a "safer room" when building a house. He proposed the following (not sure whether he had actually done it or not - not my business) - and I'm wondering what this group's thoughts are on how effective it would be.

In short - the walls of the master bedroom were reputed to be built to a different standard. They were 2X6 framed and sheathed in 1/8" sheet steel from the floor to 8'. The sheet steel was screwed to the studs. Before the wall was finished they filled each cavity in the wall with something like ABC (stone / dirt aggregate used to make dirt roads). They then sheet-rocked over the wall using a thinner sheetrock over the steel and thicker above it, textured, and painted. I believe that they used a steel door and frame, case hardened screws, etc.

The home had a crawlspace under it - and there was a trap door from the closet into the crawl space. Their intent was that if they were in a situation where they were dealing with a bad actor in their home - they could retreat to that room and at least have a shot of clearing the house through the crawl space (they were planning for a scenario in which a very angry "bad guy" (the home owner was law enforcement) finds their home - not one here the a government sends teams to kill them.

So - I would expect that 1/8" steel, 6" of compacted aggregate, then 1/8th inch steel is going to stop effectively all handgun rounds and in my vivid imagination I see it either stopping or dramatically diminishing essentially any common rifle round as well? In the unlikely event that someone is shooting at me in my home, I'd bet that the rounds coming my ware are either a handgun round, or rifle in 5.56, 7.62X39... If someone is shooting at me though the walls of my home with .50BMG AP or .406 Cheytac solids, or... well... I guess I've gotten into some deeper stuff than normal.

So - thoughts on two things:
1) The effectiveness of something like this as a means to buy folks effective cover from common rounds (for a period of seconds to a minute or two)...
2) Concerns about the structural / construction ramifications of doing something like this? I would think that one would need either a stem wall or significant beam under the base of the wall wherever this treatment is given...I'd also worry about whether the aggregate would become stable enough that it does not pull the screws out of the wood over time as the home flexes / moves.

Curious what this crew thinks?


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knockonit
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Re: Filled Wall for Protection?

#2

Post by knockonit »

ditto on lower support, stem or pony wall. and as for fill, only issue would be over the years the wood drying out and releasing from the stud, but IMO, filing with sand or aggregate would serve purpose, assuming drywall on each side, once round expands at first impact it begins to slow
good luck with design, might review some of the safe room sales joints, and see how they address issues.
Rj
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Re: Filled Wall for Protection?

#3

Post by Ballistic Therapy »

Much easier and cheaper to use concrete.
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Re: Filled Wall for Protection?

#4

Post by bldr60 »

Box o Truth did some tests on wall sections filled with sand.
https://www.theboxotruth.com/threads/th ... truth.299/
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Re: Filled Wall for Protection?

#5

Post by SupportTheSecond »

Add one of these doors and you're set:

https://www.gunsafes.com/store/p/64450- ... -Door.html
Last edited by SupportTheSecond on June 4th, 2022, 6:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Filled Wall for Protection?

#6

Post by Suck My Glock »

There was an episode of Doomsday Preppers where some guy did this with his master bedroom suite in the walls of his 2nd floor. The problem became weight. The walls became so massively heavy, the construction was unsafe and the upper floor was at risk of collapsing onto the bottom floor.
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Re: Filled Wall for Protection?

#7

Post by Ben7 »

Suck My Glock wrote: June 3rd, 2022, 4:05 pm There was an episode of Doomsday Preppers where some guy did this with his master bedroom suite in the walls of his 2nd floor. The problem became weight. The walls became so massively heavy, the construction was unsafe and the upper floor was at risk of collapsing onto the bottom floor.
That was my thought…weight. Groumd floor, great, second floor, I’d worry about the integrity of the floor joists being able to support an extra ton of weight concentrated on a small area.
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Re: Filled Wall for Protection?

#8

Post by OH-MAN »

bldr60 wrote: June 3rd, 2022, 3:44 pm Box o Truth did some tests on wall sections filled with sand.
https://www.theboxotruth.com/threads/th ... truth.299/
Man I watched a bunch of these fellers videos over the years.
Hard to believe the rifle rounds stopped as short as the pistolas.
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Re: Filled Wall for Protection?

#9

Post by XJThrottle »

OH-MAN wrote: June 3rd, 2022, 5:31 pm
bldr60 wrote: June 3rd, 2022, 3:44 pm Box o Truth did some tests on wall sections filled with sand.
https://www.theboxotruth.com/threads/th ... truth.299/
Man I watched a bunch of these fellers videos over the years.
Hard to believe the rifle rounds stopped as short as the pistolas.
In situations like this, the speed of the rifle round is to it's detriment.
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Re: Filled Wall for Protection?

#10

Post by OH-MAN »

XJThrottle wrote: June 3rd, 2022, 6:13 pm
OH-MAN wrote: June 3rd, 2022, 5:31 pm
bldr60 wrote: June 3rd, 2022, 3:44 pm Box o Truth did some tests on wall sections filled with sand.
https://www.theboxotruth.com/threads/th ... truth.299/
Man I watched a bunch of these fellers videos over the years.
Hard to believe the rifle rounds stopped as short as the pistolas.
In situations like this, the speed of the rifle round is to it's detriment.
Makes sense, that explains the fragmenting of the rifle bullets.
I had high hopes for the slug too.
Thanks man.
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Re: Filled Wall for Protection?

#11

Post by BigNate »

knockonit wrote: June 3rd, 2022, 3:30 pm ditto on lower support, stem or pony wall. and as for fill, only issue would be over the years the wood drying out and releasing from the stud, but IMO, filing with sand or aggregate would serve purpose, assuming drywall on each side, once round expands at first impact it begins to slow
good luck with design, might review some of the safe room sales joints, and see how they address issues.
Rj
Yep - I'd do the math on the mass of the fill media to ensure that the wall was sufficiently supported. That part may not be "easy," but my sense is that it is math that I can work through.

Your second issue - the wood drying out and screws pulling out is the one that worries me more.

bldr60 wrote: June 3rd, 2022, 3:44 pm Box o Truth did some tests on wall sections filled with sand.
https://www.theboxotruth.com/threads/th ... truth.299/
Thanks a ton - good info there. Its sort of what I would hope would have happened to the rounds when going through the media.


Ballistic Therapy wrote: June 3rd, 2022, 3:36 pm Much easier and cheaper to use concrete.
I'm starting to think that might be the case.
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Re: Filled Wall for Protection?

#12

Post by BigNate »

SupportTheSecond wrote: June 3rd, 2022, 3:55 pm Add one of these doors and you're set:

https://www.gunsafes.com/store/p/64450- ... -Door.html
I've thought of building a vault room - and it would get something like this. The idea above is for a room that does not stand out as a safe room - it should look like any other room in the house - but provide protection long enough to allow escape.
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Re: Filled Wall for Protection?

#13

Post by knockonit »

pending your age, and how long you intend to be in residcence, and if house is subjected to extreme temp changes, the screw releasing is minimal, i just mention is due to disclosing all options and scenarios to customers over the years, information is power you know
good luck
rj
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Re: Filled Wall for Protection?

#14

Post by oldmanpaintball »

wifi must be terrible in that room lol why does my netflix buffer lol
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Re: Filled Wall for Protection?

#15

Post by 338lapua »

I built a house with this stuff. Went with a 12" core and did a double wall of it with a utility corridor between the two walls. 24 inches of concrete. Interior room dividing walls are 8" of concrete ICF blocks. Very quiet and very energy efficient. Good luck even drilling a hole through it. Same concrete mix they build reactor containment buildings with.

https://buildblock.com/
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