Castle doctrine & vehicles

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Pro2a
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Castle doctrine & vehicles

#1

Post by Pro2a »

Good morning fellow internet lawyers.
Do the castle doctrine principles apply to vehicles as well here in Arizona?
I would think that someone who is approaching your vehicle with a specific threat, or in a threatening manner, would still not actually be entering the vehicle. By comparison, I’m under the impression you can’t defend yourself with deadly force against a threat outside your front door or in the driveway.
Discussion.... ON


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Re: Castle doctrine & vehicles

#2

Post by Flash »

There was a road rage case a couple of years back. Retired cop raging on some 20 something guy and his girlfriend, both the 20 something and the retired cop in cars with the kid being chased by the retired cop.

The 20 something finally hit a red light and had to stop because of cars in front of him. Retired cop jumps out of his car, pulls a gun and runs to the 20 something's truck.

20 something has a gun too and center punches the retired cop in front of a ton of witnesses. Happened in Gilbert around 2 miles from my house and Gilbert PD called it a righteous shoot. Good for them.
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Re: Castle doctrine & vehicles

#3

Post by Dogslayer »

Retired cop forgot that he was 10-7. He should have dialed 911 and let on duty officers handle it. The 20something did what he had to to save himself. Good that he was exonerated.
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Re: Castle doctrine & vehicles

#4

Post by Flash »

Well, from the newspaper accounts I read calling 911 wouldn't help as the retired cop was a hothead who got road rage on a regular basis for no good reason.
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Re: Castle doctrine & vehicles

#5

Post by shooter444 »

Hmmm, an old favorite of mine,... "The Proverbial Castle Doctrine"!

I have always believed,... that Doctrine to be an infringement on citizen Rights that can exercise their INALIENABLE RIGHT to LIFE,LIBERTY and the PURSUIT of HAPPINESS.

And,... I have always believed it to be a step back from infringement, for citizens that have not had the ability to exercise their INALIENABLE RIGHT to LIFE,LIBERTY and the PURSUIT of HAPPINESS.

Now,... my take on the "INALIENABLE RIGHT to LIFE,LIBERTY and the PURSUIT of HAPPINESS",... has no restrictions,... it is alive and valid no matter where I am,... in my house, in my car, on the street, fishing on my favorite stream, swimming at my favorite beach, etc. etc!!!

In ALL the reading I have done,... writings with the proper authority to define such,... I have not read of any restrictions on my Creator Endowed Natural Rights,... therefore, I do not accept any restrictions on mine!!!

I understand other's opinions may differ,... which is another Human Right I don't restrict, for myself,... or, anyone else!

8-)
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Re: Castle doctrine & vehicles

#6

Post by Steve_In_29 »

^^^^ Exercising an inalienable right is no guarantee you won't still end up in jail or have your life ruined.

As to the OP I would consult a lawyer on this matter rather then depending on strangers to provide legal advice.
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Re: Castle doctrine & vehicles

#7

Post by QuietM4 »

Pro2a wrote: April 20th, 2019, 11:50 am I’m under the impression you can’t defend yourself with deadly force against a threat outside your front door or in the driveway.
Discussion.... ON
Of course you can. It usually depends on a disparity of force, as do all self defense situations. As long as you are legally allowed to be at/in the place the event takes place, i.e. not trespassing on private property, and there is an immediate threat to your life, we have stand your ground laws.

Example; you are in your car about the leave for work. Perp walks up to your window, yelling for you to get out of your car. He is unarmed. Your life is not in immediate danger. Same instance, but how he has a gun at his side. Your life is now in immediate danger.

What if the vehicle is an RV? A few Supreme Court cases say those are homes.
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Re: Castle doctrine & vehicles

#8

Post by Pro2a »

Well yes I see, but I thought stand your ground was a whole separate deal from castle doctrine.

Question to your scenario... In situation B, with a pistol at his side, are you really in immediate danger?, I ask because if he is just yelling to get out or what have you, and no threats are being made, is my life really in danger? Let's just toss out there that there are witnesses that can say, I heard no specific threats, just a lot of yelling.
Although, the more details I can throw into it, I guess we can convolute this with micro details.
I guess what I'm getting at, is this just merely self defense (all rules apply) and the castle doctrine really relates to legally occupied places, like home, RV, etc.?
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Re: Castle doctrine & vehicles

#9

Post by Steve_In_29 »

As I said in my previous post...you are looking for legal advice from strangers on the internet.

CONSULT A GUN LAWYER before you do something that ruins yours and your family's life.
Last edited by Steve_In_29 on April 22nd, 2019, 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Castle doctrine & vehicles

#10

Post by Viper 1-26 INF »

Pro2a wrote: April 20th, 2019, 11:50 am Good morning fellow internet lawyers.
Do the castle doctrine principles apply to vehicles as well here in Arizona?
I would think that someone who is approaching your vehicle with a specific threat, or in a threatening manner, would still not actually be entering the vehicle. By comparison, I’m under the impression you can’t defend yourself with deadly force against a threat outside your front door or in the driveway.
Discussion.... ON
Here's your answer: https://www.azleg.gov/viewdocument/?docName=https://www.azleg.gov/ars/13/00418.htm (more info can be found in Title 13 Chapter 4 of the Arizona Revised Statutes).


Edited to add: Also, if you're going to carry a firearm for self defense it would probably be in your best interest to peruse Title 13 of the Arizona Revised Statutes from time to time as things can change (Keeping up-to-date on Title 13 - Chapters 4, 31, and some small bits of 38 can be useful).
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Re: Castle doctrine & vehicles

#11

Post by knockonit »

well said VP1-26 inf

ignorance of the law is no excuse, and one would be drawn and quartered for it, if a citizen, but if a neophyte meaning an illegal immigrant the rules would change, as for them ignorance of the law would work as a defense, along with free legal advice
Rj
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Re: Castle doctrine & vehicles

#12

Post by QuietM4 »

Pro2a wrote: April 22nd, 2019, 10:05 am Well yes I see, but I thought stand your ground was a whole separate deal from castle doctrine.

Question to your scenario... In situation B, with a pistol at his side, are you really in immediate danger?, I ask because if he is just yelling to get out or what have you, and no threats are being made, is my life really in danger? Let's just toss out there that there are witnesses that can say, I heard no specific threats, just a lot of yelling.
Although, the more details I can throw into it, I guess we can convolute this with micro details.
I guess what I'm getting at, is this just merely self defense (all rules apply) and the castle doctrine really relates to legally occupied places, like home, RV, etc.?
I think a reasonable person would assume a person yelling at you to get out of your car whilst holding a deadly weapon (disparity of force would now be equal) would constitute a violent action where your life is in immediate danger. If holding a firearm at your side does not constitute an immediate threat to your life, when does it? When his arm begins an upward motion? When the firearm is pointed in your direction? When his trigger finger is on the trigger? When then trigger is being depressed? When the bullet is leaving the barrel?

Police officers shoot people all the time with a firearm in their hand, not being pointed at officers. There was an incident in Las Vegas earlier this year when a person was walking around with a knife, ignoring multiple officers commands to drop the knife. They chased him for several blocks, and ultimately shot him, after deploying less lethal bean bag rounds several times. The knife was never raised towards any of the officers; the perp never lunged in their direction; he just didn't comply with orders. It was a justified shoot.

Like you said, we can add micro details all day and get varying degrees of agreement/disagreement on scenarios.
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Re: Castle doctrine & vehicles

#13

Post by shooter444 »

QuietM4 wrote: April 22nd, 2019, 12:34 pm
Pro2a wrote: April 22nd, 2019, 10:05 am Well yes I see, but I thought stand your ground was a whole separate deal from castle doctrine.

Question to your scenario... In situation B, with a pistol at his side, are you really in immediate danger?, I ask because if he is just yelling to get out or what have you, and no threats are being made, is my life really in danger? Let's just toss out there that there are witnesses that can say, I heard no specific threats, just a lot of yelling.
Although, the more details I can throw into it, I guess we can convolute this with micro details.
I guess what I'm getting at, is this just merely self defense (all rules apply) and the castle doctrine really relates to legally occupied places, like home, RV, etc.?
I think a reasonable person would assume a person yelling at you to get out of your car whilst holding a deadly weapon (disparity of force would now be equal) would constitute a violent action where your life is in immediate danger. If holding a firearm at your side does not constitute an immediate threat to your life, when does it? When his arm begins an upward motion? When the firearm is pointed in your direction? When his trigger finger is on the trigger? When then trigger is being depressed? When the bullet is leaving the barrel?

Police officers shoot people all the time with a firearm in their hand, not being pointed at officers. There was an incident in Las Vegas earlier this year when a person was walking around with a knife, ignoring multiple officers commands to drop the knife. They chased him for several blocks, and ultimately shot him, after deploying less lethal bean bag rounds several times. The knife was never raised towards any of the officers; the perp never lunged in their direction; he just didn't comply with orders. It was a justified shoot.

Like you said, we can add micro details all day and get varying degrees of agreement/disagreement on scenarios.
THIS ^ IN SPADES!!!
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