Firearm hold/appeal

[Steve_In_29]

.... paperwork asking for SSN, that there is no place to enter that number when submitting the NICS request to the Feds. Is the AZ version of NICS different?

It magically appears.....on the 4473... been there for decades and decades...
4473 SSN #.jpg

Yes it is on the paper form but according to several FFl's here in CA there is no block to put it in when submitting the online NICS application.

[RandyTF]

Maybe I missed it trying to weed through all of the posts but finger prints are required to get a CCW permit. Wouldn't that be significant individual identification? Finger prints are considered unique to each of us. Not sure why God did that though! But he is pretty smart from what I've seen.

[deanq]

Maybe I missed it trying to weed through all of the posts but finger prints are required to get a CCW permit. Wouldn't that be significant individual identification? Finger prints are considered unique to each of us. Not sure why God did that though! But he is pretty smart from what I've seen.

Yes.
To summarize; With your CCW, no NICS is required. Fill out your 4473, pay your money, go home. It's that simple. Difficult for some to understand, but...some people are slower than others.

[shooter444]

Yes, RandyTF, that is correct, but, ... finger prints aren't required with every purchase like a name/ID, is.

Any claim that any ID, other than a proof of residence ID/ aka Az. DL, is needed with a Az. CWP to purchase a firearm in Arizona is incorrect.

Which is why this thread began to stink, to me, way back when! Like three day old fish!

[mallic]

Why on earth is this thread still going? We already gave the reasonable answer of "get your CWP and don't worry about NICS".

And just to reiterate, your UPIN or SS are not required after getting one.

[knockonit]

pretty sure this horse is kilt many times over.

[Racewin]

Sounds like he applied for a UPIN...a personal ID number given by the FBI (or ATF?) for this purpose. It's telling that an SSN isn't enough. I agree with others' suggestions to get a CWP.

[shooter444]

Sounds and smells like,... to me,... if this really has been going on for a year,... he obviously has done nothing, because this problem is still ongoing.

My guess is, he is a prohibited possessor,... but obviously, I have no proof!

[shooter444]

Sounds like he applied for a UPIN...a personal ID number given by the FBI (or ATF?) for this purpose. It's telling that an SSN isn't enough. I agree with others' suggestions to get a CWP.

_____________________________

Interestingly enough, I just picked up a piece through my local FF. It has been longer than I remember, because he has gone to TOUCH SCREEN COMPUTER on filling out the 4473, which is way above my pay scale. I don't get off the desert much, so please accept my apology if I am behind the times!

Annnd,... IT WAS NOT A FUN EXPERIENCE!!!

And, interestingly enough, the call for an UPIN number just happened to pop up on the 4473 form/screen for the first time, in my remembrance,... which he (my FFL) immediately told me " No need for that", since I had my CWP.

Then the section for a Social Security Number came up,.... which i just passed on by, without a hic-up from my FFL looking over my shoulder, just for assurance, since it was my first electronic submission, ever.

Sooo, my quandary is this,... since news of late about major computer companies having the ability to track, see, and, or, listen to everyone with a certain type of phone or computer,... what will keep certain Government employees from immediately accessing and acquiring 4473's now that they are being done on computers?

I, mean,... these transactions are suppose to be PRIVATE and NOT a FIREARM REGISTRATION,... RIGHT?
And they are suppose to be held ONLY by the FFL for so many years and then DESTROYED,... RIGHT?



(this is not exactly on topic,... but, it seems our OP has decided to let this tread die, for some odd reason, ... maybe this will give it a little more life)

[QuietM4]

The eCheck 4473 provides the FBI/NICS with the same information you provide the dealer when they manually call in the background check. The gun information is not provided during the background check, other than the type of firearm; handgun, long gun, or other (If you are buying a Ruger 10/22 s/n 123-456789, all the FBI/NICS knows is that you are buying a long gun). The background check information has always been entered into a computer by the NICS Operator, but I agree that a gun shop's computer system may be less secure than the FBI/NICS computer system. However, this could be said of any retail gun shop. For instance, I'm sure if someone wanted to hack into the computers of Sportsman's Warehouse, Bass Pro, Cabelas, etc, all that firearm purchase data would be available.

The firearms you buy are not "private" to law enforcement, they just aren't centrally stored in a database. If the ATF wants to know what guns you bought from Joe's Gun Shop, they just have go ask for the 4473.

4473 forms are held by the gun shop indefinitely, never destroyed. When the gun shop goes out of business, the 4473 forms are sent to the ATF.

[shooter444]

It's been around twenty years, but, the FFL I used back then and I had a conversation where, I am almost positive, he said FFL's only had to hold 4473's for a decade or so, and then could destroy them.

But, my memory surely isn't what it used to be!

Thanks for the correction!

[QuietM4]

It's been around twenty years, but, the FFL I used back then and I had a conversation where, I am almost positive, he said FFL's only had to hold 4473's for a decade or so, and then could destroy them.

But, my memory surely isn't what it used to be!

Thanks for the correction!

I’m sure at some point you were correct. I audit firearms transactions/inventory for a national pawn shop company, and I’ve seen forms stuffed in boxes dating back to the early 80’s when they were first required. They were only one page back then. Even when a gun shop closes, all the 4473’s and bound books go the the ATF for storage. Not sure what happens to them from there, but they have to destroy them at some point...maybe the scan them for digital storage and then shred them. But, the point is that if they want to know what/where/when you bough a gun, they will find out.