Personal Defense Insurance

[trailboss60]

Thanks for your perspective, Joe.
It makes a lot of sense.

New Jersey, California might be a different matter.

Location, location, location.

[BigNate]

Thanks @Joe_Blacke I appreciate the insights... A couple of questions...

If you really understand title 13 chapter 4 and know and apply reasonableness and necessary (rather than can), your chances of needing a lawyer at all are so small that I doubt it could be calculated.

I'm pretty confidant that my framework for representing or using deadly force is more conservative than the law requires (I think I have a pretty good understanding of the threshold for legal threat or use of deadly force - but despite the lack of requirement to do so - I'm happy to retreat if that is an option)... That said - I guess my concern is the cost associated with legal representation immediately after an event should one happen. I understand that I'm probably looking at a minimum of a $10K retainer to have a competent criminal defense attorney in place before being interviewed. I guess I don't have a clear picture of what the actual costs would be of such an interaction -but I understand that higher end criminal defense attorneys START at about $500/hr. so getting one engaged is going to cost thousands of dollars even if it is just an initial consult and representation for an interview with the police I'm guessing that I've sunk $5,000 into it even if it is one interview resulting in a recommendation that no prosecution is warranted. I'm in a weird place in that I generally have a huge respect for law enforcement and have no sense that rank and file police officers / deputies are "out to get me" (or anyone - other than active criminals) - but I have very little trust in the system behind them. I see the prosecutors offices as highly politicized - and increasingly dominated by people who see the world through a lens of social justice and "equity" - and I worry about the cost of fighting a political prosecution (old conservative white guy shoots <insert non-white skin tone here> guy - therefore he must be a racist and deserving of prosecution). Maybe those fears are unfounded - but I can tell you that I have them - and if I were ever involved in any defensive use of a firearm I'd want to have a competent attorney present before making a statement - primarily because I think that that approach would reduce the likelihood of a political prosecution happening. Is your view that this fear is unfounded?

There is only one case people can try and point to (Harold Fish), but in that case had he acted reasonably and necessary, not changed his story which conflicted with each one, he wouldn’t have been charged. Plus AZ law has since changed since this case where the prosecutor now has to prove it wasn’t self defense to convict someone. That raises the bar significantly

I have pointed to the Harold Fish case in just this way. I had never heard that he changed his story. I'm interested in what I've missed? When I looked for info on the case what I found were generally descriptions of the initial story (rushed by dogs... shots into the ground to deter the dogs... then rushed by crazed younger / fit man while miles from any assistance... shot the crazed guy in self defense). I understood that the Coconino County Sheriff represented this to the county attorney as appearing to be a legitimate self defense shoot - and the anti-gun political minded county attorney overrode this recommendation and prosecuted him - successfully suppressing evidence of the attacker's previous violent and unhinged behavior and portraying Fish as some sort of gun-nut because he carried an extra deadly 10mm handgun. I'm curious to what happened with him changing his story and whether the portrayal of the prosecutor that I have seen in other places (e.g. https://www.law.umich.edu/special/exone ... aseid=4266 ) are inaccurate?

[Joe_Blacke]

If your concern is retaining an attorney prior to a police interview, it’s not an issue.

Good defense attorneys do the initial interview sit in pro bono. It’s only after you have been charged so they look at retainers, or if you simply want them to babysit you through the process.

It may be different if you decided to answer any questions prior to asking for a lawyer and now there are follow up interviews and interrogations

[Dauph]

[pneuby]

If the above video didn't convince me, I am convinced now. I will not be renewing my plan next year.
It's not USCCA, but certainly rife with the 'outs' they can take at any time.