Alec Baldwin CHARGED !

If it doesn't fit the topic in any of the other forums, and is firearm-related, put it here!
User avatar
kenpoprofessor
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 1970
Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 4:10 am
Reputation: 3
Location: Phoenix

Re: Alec Baldwin CHARGED !

#31

Post by kenpoprofessor »

smithers599 wrote: January 21st, 2023, 12:26 pm Could you be more specific, beyond just name-calling?

What part is stupid? That there is such a concept under the law as joint liability?

That Hutchins was stupid to sit in front of a gun because somebody else told her it was unloaded?

That Baldwin's lawyers will try to deflect blame from Baldwin to Hutchins?

So, you're telling me you were on scene, saw and heard what happened, and more importantly, how it all it went wrong??? Dude, you have no idea what you're saying, and how you came to the conclusions you have is beyond me.

Here's what I know: Alec Baldwin was handed a gun, he pulled the hammer back, and, from what he says, let it go. There was a real, live round in the cylinder, it discharged, killing the woman and wounding the other guy. Now, how that cylinder for live rounds got in the gun, don't care. If it was a repro, they are black powder, but can be made to fire real, cartridged ammo.

https://kirstkonverter.com/45-colt-navy-revolvers.html


They previously had incidents with negligent discharges before this event even happened. Which means, he was totally aware of the dangers with these sorts of "props". He, as the person holding the gun, pointing the gun, and firing the gun, is totally responsible for that act, period.

The idea you're promoting is what's bad for gun manufacturers, and even yourself. By passing the buck down the line, you're insisting it had to be someone else's fault as well. If the courts start using that logic, we are in big trouble.

Now, go ask mommy for a hot pocket before you spew any more nonsense.

Clyde


User avatar
Jack Dupp
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 901
Joined: May 14th, 2018, 3:15 pm
Reputation: 5
Location: Mesa

Re: Alec Baldwin CHARGED !

#32

Post by Jack Dupp »

kenpoprofessor wrote: January 21st, 2023, 1:04 pm
Boriqua wrote: January 21st, 2023, 12:48 pm

Must be extremely difficult for you to be the smartest guy in every room you enter.
No, not really, but I do try to surround myself with others of equal or better intelligence, and it's extremely difficult to find intelligent people any more. Obviously, this isn't the place to find that intelligence from what I'm seeing and reading.


Clyde
Then why did you bother coming back? I was happy to see you come back to these forums at first, but you just suck as a participant now.
User avatar
paulgt2164
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 785
Joined: July 1st, 2018, 9:40 am
Reputation: 17
Location: Phoenix

Re: Alec Baldwin CHARGED !

#33

Post by paulgt2164 »

Boriqua wrote: January 21st, 2023, 12:48 pm
kenpoprofessor wrote: January 21st, 2023, 10:25 am My gawd, the stupid here is overwhelming lately. Maybe I need to do an RJ.
Clyde
Must be extremely difficult for you to be the smartest guy in every room you enter.
Well he devotes what little mental horsepower he has to trying to be the smartest guy in the room, he doesn't have enough left to actually be it. That is why he always defaults to the same, predictable, and pointless behavior when he fails to grasp simple concepts and stomps around like a petulant child on here if he doesn't comprehend something or disagrees.

There are more people than Baldwin responsible for what happened. The court system knows this, and has done the right thing by charging both Baldwin and the Armorer. I think the charges are a bit light, but that is a matter of opinion.

Here are some facts - simple google research will show.

The armorer chick (Hannah Gutierrez Reed) has changed her story about why live ammo was on set at least two or three times. The cast/crew stated she brought live ammo so the guns could be shot "for fun" outside of production. She then claimed that since the ammo was left out for several hours, a "disgruntled worker" sabotaged it:
Lawyers for Reed Jason Bowles and Robert Gorence claimed that the bullets their client loaded into the gun on the day of the shooting were taken from a box that was only supposed to contain dummy rounds that were incapable of firing. However, because the ammunition was left unattended from roughly 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. that day, they believe the opportunity was there for a disgruntled crew member to mix a live round into the box. 
She then claimed it was the suppliers fault (yet as an armorer she can't tell the difference between a live round, a blank, and a dummy?)
Gutierrez Reed accuses PDQ Arm and Prop, LLC. and its founder Seth Kenney of violation of trade practices, false and deceptive product labels, and false and material misrepresentations after, Gutierrez Reed alleges, Kenney sold her a cache of dummy ammunition with live rounds mixed in.
But when that didn't really work - she fell back on she had live ammo to show the actors "how it felt to shoot a gun for real."
Reed said that using live ammunition helped the actors get the feel of a firing a gun, so they would know how to do the recoil during a scene.
Keep in mind - this was on a production / set where there was supposed to be zero live ammo.
Gutierrez Reed said that prop master Sarah Zachry removed the guns from the truck and brought them to her. Gutierrez Reed also said she handed the gun to Baldwin multiple times and also handed it to assistant director Dave Halls. Halls handed the gun to Baldwin before the fatal shooting, according to the warrant. 

Handled it multiple times - still didn't check it.
Zachry Davis, costume designer said, “She’s gross. I’m so disugusted [sic] by her right now. She f*** up. She got someone killed. And rather than take responsibility and face it, she’s trying to take everyone else down with her.”
In a later message, Davis writes that Reed “didn’t do her job properly. And she had plenty of time to do so because we had extra time that morning while camera was f*** off. So she can say what she wants about training time and all that bullshit but it’s not why she killed Halyna.”
“There are protocols in place that would have prevented Halyna’s death if Hannah had been following them,” Davis adds later. “She broke SO many, by her own admission. That’s willful negligence. She’s liable. She’ll go down for manslaughter.”
The "professional" responsible for firearm safety handled what was supposed to be a "cold" gun (no live ammo, no blanks) multiple times before it ended up in Baldwin's hands and didn't even check it apparently.
Baldwin’s stunt double accidentally fired two rounds Saturday after being told that the gun was “cold” — lingo for a weapon that doesn’t have any ammunition, including blanks — two crew members who witnessed the episode told the Los Angeles Times.
“There should have been an investigation into what happened,” a crew member said. “There were no safety meetings. There was no assurance that it wouldn’t happen again. All they wanted to do was rush, rush, rush.”
Safety protocols standard in the industry, including gun inspections, were not strictly followed on the “Rust” set near Santa Fe, the sources said. They said at least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to a production manager about gun safety on the set.
On April 20, it was announced that the New Mexico Occupational Health and Safety Bureau had fined Rust Movie Productions $136,793 for a lack of firearms safety — reportedly the maximum fine allowed.
Over the course of their investigation, the bureau reportedly found that there was no on-set protocol to ensure that no live rounds were on the film set, and that multiple complains from crew members about gun safety were ignored. “What we had, based on our investigators’ findings, was a set of obvious hazards to employees regarding the use of firearms and management’s failure to act upon those obvious hazards,” said bureau chief Bob Genoway of the investigation.
She worked on "The Old Way" before Rust - and the crew on that film wanted her fired because she was incompetent. Nic Cage himself reportedly went off on her for unsafe practices on that movie.

This was a perfect cocktail of gross negligence. The person responsible for the firearms, ammo, and safety was negligent. The production team (including Baldwin) was negligent in their duties to ensure safety, and reasonable working conditions. I hope the two of them (especially the Armorer) get the book thrown at them. Placing the blame 100% on Baldwin (as much as I despise him and his ilk) isn't right. He shares it with others - as the courts agree. Given we aren't "pros" working in this industry - it is hard to understand how it is logical that the entirety of firearms safety was basically placed on one person for a movie production (because it is production - and more "efficient" to have one "expert" in charge instead of training up everyone....) - but at least we now know what happens when that person is really, really bad at their job. People die. It is pretty obvious what happened with all this.
User avatar
XJThrottle
ArizonaShooting.org Bronze Supporter
ArizonaShooting.org Bronze Supporter
Posts: 2882
Joined: June 26th, 2018, 5:43 pm
Reputation: 7
Location: Phoemex

Re: Alec Baldwin CHARGED !

#34

Post by XJThrottle »

Cut Clyde some slack. The lever for his lazyboy broke, so he has to s*** post being uncomfortable sitting up. Tough to have that warm loving feeling if you can't spill your soup down your chest...
User avatar
nvgdude
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 131
Joined: May 15th, 2018, 7:13 pm
Reputation: 1

Re: Alec Baldwin CHARGED !

#35

Post by nvgdude »

This is my take,

Forget that it was a firearm. Disregard everything you know about firearms safety. It's not actually relevant. Baldwin killed someone through gross negligence.

When dangerous things are used on set, there is a safety brief. Doesn't matter if it was a gun, or a fork lift. Baldwin violated the safety brief. The safety brief says you never point the prop gun directly at someone. It's always done with shallow angles, and if you need the camera to look down the barrel of a firearm, it's done with a mirror.

On the armorer, I'm a bit conflicted. My understanding is that she wasn't on set that day, and the director was acting as assistant-armorer, which generally means that liability passes on to him. If she was actually on set, then, yeah, she is absolutely liable.
Last edited by nvgdude on January 22nd, 2023, 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
kenpoprofessor
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 1970
Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 4:10 am
Reputation: 3
Location: Phoenix

Re: Alec Baldwin CHARGED !

#36

Post by kenpoprofessor »

nvgdude wrote: January 22nd, 2023, 3:43 pm This is my take,

Forget that it was a firearm. Disregard everything you know about firearms safety. It's not actually relevant. Baldwin killed someone through gross negligence.

When dangerous things are used on set, there is a safety brief. Doesn't matter if it was a gun, or a fork lift. Baldwin violated the safety brief. The safety brief says you never point the prop gun directly at someone. It's always done with shallow angles, and if you need the camera to look down the barrel of a firearm, it's done with a mirror.

On the armorer, I'm a bit conflicted. She wasn't on set that day, and the director was acting as assistant-armorer, which generally means that liability passes on to him.

Now that was a very reasoned argument, thank you.

Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day

Clyde
User avatar
Dauph
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 5803
Joined: May 21st, 2018, 8:21 pm
Reputation: 3
Location: Peoria

Re: Alec Baldwin CHARGED !

#37

Post by Dauph »

Charges dropped

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ch ... -rcna80722

Charges against Alec Baldwin dropped in fatal ‘Rust’ shooting, attorneys say
Prosecutors had blamed the Oscar-nominated actor for the death of Halyna Hutchins on the New Mexico set of the Western movie "Rust."
User avatar
cool arrow
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 1783
Joined: June 23rd, 2018, 8:06 am
Reputation: 11
Location: Tucson

Re: Alec Baldwin CHARGED !

#38

Post by cool arrow »

"The charges against Baldwin's co-defendant, "Rust" armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, were still in play, her lawyers said Thursday."
Looks like they have their sacrificial lamb here.

"Baldwin was rehearsing with a pistol for a scene when the gun went off, killing Hutchins and wounding director Joel Souza."

Single action pistols don't just "go off" :roll:
User avatar
Suck My Glock
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 8816
Joined: May 25th, 2018, 3:01 pm
Reputation: 8
Location: Peoria

Re: Alec Baldwin CHARGED !

#39

Post by Suck My Glock »

WTMF?!?!?!?!
User avatar
Ballistic Therapy
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 1438
Joined: June 18th, 2018, 4:05 pm
Reputation: 2
Location: Pima County

Re: Alec Baldwin CHARGED !

#40

Post by Ballistic Therapy »

If you have enough money , you can buy your way out of anything.
User avatar
baja
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 812
Joined: June 25th, 2018, 10:18 am
Reputation: 12
Location: Mesa

Re: Alec Baldwin CHARGED !

#41

Post by baja »

Going forward his name is officially:

'Killer Baldwin'

No matter what the law does, no matter what anyone says - he Did Shoot and Kill
Halyna Hutchins.

If you have a social media account (I don't) feel free to spread
#KillerBaldwin
User avatar
Tenring
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 2483
Joined: June 2nd, 2018, 10:13 am
Reputation: 7
Location: Cave Creek

Re: Alec Baldwin CHARGED !

#42

Post by Tenring »

Lawlessness is rampant everywhere.
User avatar
Tenring
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 2483
Joined: June 2nd, 2018, 10:13 am
Reputation: 7
Location: Cave Creek

Re: Alec Baldwin CHARGED !

#43

Post by Tenring »

Here comes the chit pile to justify not charging killer baldwin.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/21/entertai ... index.html
User avatar
Suck My Glock
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 8816
Joined: May 25th, 2018, 3:01 pm
Reputation: 8
Location: Peoria

Re: Alec Baldwin CHARGED !

#44

Post by Suck My Glock »

Tenring wrote: April 22nd, 2023, 10:08 am Here comes the chit pile to justify not charging killer baldwin.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/21/entertai ... index.html
Well, apparently the prosecutor neglected to read the FBI forensic report on the testing of the gun. Here’s is the relevant portion (page 6).

TL;DR: They tried to force it to fire without pulling the trigger by pounding on the hammer with a mallet 1) with the hammer down, 2) at quarter cock, 3) at half cock, and 4) at full cock. The only detonation occurred in the full cock position…

…when they pounded the hammer so hard that the sear sheered.

Prior to the breakage, the gun operated properly and would not fire.

http://zelmanpartisans.com/?p=53585
User avatar
Suck My Glock
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 8816
Joined: May 25th, 2018, 3:01 pm
Reputation: 8
Location: Peoria

Re: Alec Baldwin CHARGED !

#45

Post by Suck My Glock »

Post Reply