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smithers599 wrote: ↑June 29th, 2020, 11:48 am
Husband and wife are both PI lawyers, operating their law practice out of their palatial home.
You got your lawyers; you got your guns; you got your money. Quick, somebody call Hank Williams, Jr.!
Lobo2087 wrote: ↑June 29th, 2020, 9:36 am
I would think breaking through a secured iron gate to be the opposite of peaceful, just my humble opinion. Definitely reason to be concerned and watchful, as it was on a neighborhood and not immediate entrance into private home, however still a bit short of resson to point a firearm.
If they would have been charged by the crowd and were forced to defend themselves I'm not sure which way the jury would go. You cant put yourself in a position to have to use deadly force but you also cant rush and assault someone.... would be an interesting court case for sure. Just my opinion
Not sure what the laws there are, but if it's true that they broke onto private property they may legally be in their rights. How would a prosecutor or jury look at it in the context of the current climate who knows. Being legally right and being found innocent are sometimes two different things. Brandishing could potentially apply, but again not sure what the laws for being on private property are. Perhaps it could be argued it's a defensive display? Obviously the optics don't look good given the s*** trigger discipline and form and the emotions on display. Not saying that I'd be a cool hand luke/high speed low drag mofo when faced with what I'm sure they thought were overwhelming odds.
The problem with that being as it is a gate to the community and not likely attached to their domicile you dont have an immediate physical threat. Additionally as it is a community you have the possibility of one liberal saying they are "guests" in which case their presence is lawful and the hoa would have to take up a criminal damage case.
Additionally i am not sure where this defensive display phrase comes from. Unless you are in immediate threat of bodily harm or death unfortunately you dont generally get to "display" not to mention aggravated assault, by pointing a firearm at a rowdy group marching by on the street. Private property display has no credibility in this. While being rowdy from my understanding and view of the video, unless there is another I haven't seen, approaching and confronting someone away and off your immediate property removes a lot of your fear defense.
You would be hard pressed to claim self defense because from the story they were not on the individuals property, the community owns the street and sidewalk of a gated community not an individual, did not address this couple until confronted with firearms, threats and orders to keep moving.
Better to stay up on the porch or in the house weapons out of sight until forced to reveal them. Coming out approaching and confronting could reasonably be construed as instigating the violent confrontation.
smithers599 wrote: ↑June 29th, 2020, 11:48 am
Husband and wife are both PI lawyers, operating their law practice out of their palatial home.
You got your lawyers; you got your guns; you got your money. Quick, somebody call Hank Williams, Jr.!
Both are attorneys, and probably know the laws in Missouri better then we do. After reading their Castle doctrine laws in Missouri, you do not need to be threatened, as most laws in most states, a violation of Trespassing can justify a shooting in Missouri. Just saying !
smithers599 wrote: ↑June 29th, 2020, 11:48 am
Husband and wife are both PI lawyers, operating their law practice out of their palatial home.
You got your lawyers; you got your guns; you got your money. Quick, somebody call Hank Williams, Jr.!
smithers599 wrote: ↑June 29th, 2020, 11:48 am
Husband and wife are both PI lawyers, operating their law practice out of their palatial home.
You got your lawyers; you got your guns; you got your money. Quick, somebody call Hank Williams, Jr.!
Both are attorneys, and probably know the laws in Missouri better then we do. After reading their Castle doctrine laws in Missouri, you do not need to be threatened, as most laws in most states, a violation of Trespassing can justify a shooting in Missouri. Just saying !
And in Georgia someone assaulting a peace officer with a weapon can be shot in self defense. We see how that's going
Big difference in breaking an hoa gate and trespassing into an hoa and passing your house than breaking and Trespassing into your home..BIG difference
Go with what you want, I'm just giving you a 16yr opinion I don't claim to be an expert
Last edited by Lobo2087 on June 29th, 2020, 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
smithers599 wrote: ↑June 29th, 2020, 11:48 am
Husband and wife are both PI lawyers, operating their law practice out of their palatial home.
You got your lawyers; you got your guns; you got your money. Quick, somebody call Hank Williams, Jr.!
That was Warren Zevon
I know, but Warren Zevon is dead. If I had written "Quick, somebody call Warren Zevon," somebody would have replied, "You can't call Warren Zevon; he is dead." Hank Williams, Jr., recorded a popular cover, and I also had the pleasure of hearing him perform it at the NRA Annual Meeting in Houston in 2005.
----
Meanwhile, I have seen a close-up of her pistol on another forum. It is a Bryco .380. Seriously? They live in a kajillion-dollar mansion and she bought the cheapest gun in the store? What's up with that?
smithers599 wrote: ↑June 29th, 2020, 11:48 am
Husband and wife are both PI lawyers, operating their law practice out of their palatial home.
You got your lawyers; you got your guns; you got your money. Quick, somebody call Hank Williams, Jr.!
That was Warren Zevon
I know, but Warren Zevon is dead. If I had written "Quick, somebody call Warren Zevon," somebody would have replied, "You can't call Warren Zevon; he is dead." Hank Williams, Jr., recorded a popular cover, and I also had the pleasure of hearing him perform it at the NRA Annual Meeting in Houston in 2005.
----
Meanwhile, I have seen a close-up of her pistol on another forum. It is a Bryco .380. Seriously? They live in a kajillion-dollar mansion and she bought the cheapest gun in the store? What's up with that?
My guess is it was an ignorant gun store clerk or friend and they weren't gun people so they didn't know better.
Lobo2087 wrote: ↑June 29th, 2020, 9:36 am
I would think breaking through a secured iron gate to be the opposite of peaceful, just my humble opinion. Definitely reason to be concerned and watchful, as it was on a neighborhood and not immediate entrance into private home, however still a bit short of resson to point a firearm.
If they would have been charged by the crowd and were forced to defend themselves I'm not sure which way the jury would go. You cant put yourself in a position to have to use deadly force but you also cant rush and assault someone.... would be an interesting court case for sure. Just my opinion
Not sure what the laws there are, but if it's true that they broke onto private property they may legally be in their rights. How would a prosecutor or jury look at it in the context of the current climate who knows. Being legally right and being found innocent are sometimes two different things. Brandishing could potentially apply, but again not sure what the laws for being on private property are. Perhaps it could be argued it's a defensive display? Obviously the optics don't look good given the s*** trigger discipline and form and the emotions on display. Not saying that I'd be a cool hand luke/high speed low drag mofo when faced with what I'm sure they thought were overwhelming odds.
The problem with that being as it is a gate to the community and not likely attached to their domicile you dont have an immediate physical threat. Additionally as it is a community you have the possibility of one liberal saying they are "guests" in which case their presence is lawful and the hoa would have to take up a criminal damage case.
Additionally i am not sure where this defensive display phrase comes from. Unless you are in immediate threat of bodily harm or death unfortunately you dont generally get to "display" not to mention aggravated assault, by pointing a firearm at a rowdy group marching by on the street. Private property display has no credibility in this. While being rowdy from my understanding and view of the video, unless there is another I haven't seen, approaching and confronting someone away and off your immediate property removes a lot of your fear defense.
You would be hard pressed to claim self defense because from the story they were not on the individuals property, the community owns the street and sidewalk of a gated community not an individual, did not address this couple until confronted with firearms, threats and orders to keep moving.
Better to stay up on the porch or in the house weapons out of sight until forced to reveal them. Coming out approaching and confronting could reasonably be construed as instigating the violent confrontation.
