I-17 shootout

[smithers599]

And he probably did not get a background check before he acquired that gun! If only we had universal background checks!

Close the MCSO loophole. It's just common sense commonsense.

[brandyspaw]

Yeah, just like a page from Obama's playbook, according to Penzone the stolen MCSO guns that were used are his predecessors fault. So Sheriff Joe was to blame---not him.

[338lapua]

Lets take him right there when the Durango curve is 3 miles ahead with a nice what 30-40' backstop to protect opposite direction traffic with little on the other side as well.

[Mauser98]

Yeah, just like a page from Obama's playbook, according to Penzone the stolen MCSO guns that were used are his predecessors fault. So Sheriff Joe was to blame---not him.

Well I wouldn't say it was his fault.

[Steve_In_29]

Yeah, just like a page from Obama's playbook, according to Penzone the stolen MCSO guns that were used are his predecessors fault. So Sheriff Joe was to blame---not him.

He blames the theft of the guns or the shootout itself on Sheriff Joe?

[gunsnboobs]

Lets take him right there when the Durango curve is 3 miles ahead with a nice what 30-40' backstop to protect opposite direction traffic with little on the other side as well.

Real life isn't scripted Hollyweird, sometimes you have to take it as it comes being a crapshoot.

[Steve_In_29]

Lets take him right there when the Durango curve is 3 miles ahead with a nice what 30-40' backstop to protect opposite direction traffic with little on the other side as well.

Real life isn't scripted Hollyweird, sometimes you have to take it as it comes being a crapshoot.

^^^This, the Durango Curve might have been packed with vehicles when they got to it. There isn't a stunt coordinator in real life and the cops took their chance when they could.

[XJThrottle]

If only there were such a device in the sky with a camera attached to it that could feed back real time images to the command center. Of course it would have to be in the area at the time too.

If only....

[smithers599]

Just curious: Do you think "auditory exclusion" would nullify the noise, or do you think the people shooting from inside the car would be deafened? Shooting an AR15 inside a car has got to be loud as hell; I'm wondering what full auto must be like inside a car.

[WRMorrison]

Just curious: Do you think "auditory exclusion" would nullify the noise, or do you think the people shooting from inside the car would be deafened? Shooting an AR15 inside a car has got to be loud as hell; I'm wondering what full auto must be like inside a car.

Story for another time, but I fired a suppressed AR15 inside a jeep with no doors and only a bikini top. It was NOT hearing safe as the sound/muzzle blast reverberated off the windshield and back into the cabin. The bikini top held it in as well. I can't even imagine how deafening it would be to fire much of anything from inside a sealed cabin; suppressed or otherwise.

-WRM

[Viper 1-26 INF]

Just curious: Do you think "auditory exclusion" would nullify the noise, or do you think the people shooting from inside the car would be deafened? Shooting an AR15 inside a car has got to be loud as hell; I'm wondering what full auto must be like inside a car.

I can't speak for others, but in my own experience in copious amounts of combat in Afghanistan as an Infantryman and having never worn ear pro a single day in country, if your adrenaline is redlining and you are in a fight for your life you probably won't even notice it. When I'm in combat and someone has started shooting at me, firing weapons has no effect on my hearing and there is no ringing in my ears or pain after the firefight (my hearing goes right back to normal). However, when I'm at the range or out shooting in the desert, it hurts a lot and my hearing won't come back fully for a few days if I don't wear ear pro. I carried an M249 SAW for a good portion of my time in Afghanistan even as a team leader (we were undermanned after taking a large number of casualties) and have fired it in tight boxed-in fighting positions, inside HMMWVs, in houses and small rooms, caves, narrow draws, you name it... Not once did firing my weapon in combat situations hurt my hearing or leave me deafened, most of the time I didn't even notice the noise, and when I did it never seemed loud enough to be painful, and once the fight was over my hearing always went back to normal. I must add though, that I do have a slight bit of hearing loss now though from all those experiences.

So, I'm thinking once they knew they were being fired upon by the suspect, they probably didn't even notice the noise when they were firing back.

[gunsnboobs]

If only there were such a device in the sky with a camera attached to it that could feed back real time images to the command center. Of course it would have to be in the area at the time too.

If only....

They had a few of them in phoenix at one time, then Channel 3 and 15 decided the laws of physics didn't apply to choppers & pilots.

[smithers599]

Just curious: Do you think "auditory exclusion" would nullify the noise, or do you think the people shooting from inside the car would be deafened? Shooting an AR15 inside a car has got to be loud as hell; I'm wondering what full auto must be like inside a car.

I can't speak for others, but in my own experience in copious amounts of combat in Afghanistan as an Infantryman and having never worn ear pro a single day in country, if your adrenaline is redlining and you are in a fight for your life you probably won't even notice it. When I'm in combat and someone has started shooting at me, firing weapons has no effect on my hearing and there is no ringing in my ears or pain after the firefight (my hearing goes right back to normal). However, when I'm at the range or out shooting in the desert, it hurts a lot and my hearing won't come back fully for a few days if I don't wear ear pro. I carried an M249 SAW for a good portion of my time in Afghanistan even as a team leader (we were undermanned after taking a large number of casualties) and have fired it in tight boxed-in fighting positions, inside HMMWVs, in houses and small rooms, caves, narrow draws, you name it... Not once did firing my weapon in combat situations hurt my hearing or leave me deafened, most of the time I didn't even notice the noise, and when I did it never seemed loud enough to be painful, and once the fight was over my hearing always went back to normal. I must add though, that I do have a slight bit of hearing loss now though from all those experiences.

So, I'm thinking once they knew they were being fired upon by the suspect, they probably didn't even notice the noise when they were firing back.

Interesting.
Another guy told me he used his pistol in self-defense against a mugger who attacked him inside an elevator. He said he doesn't remember hearing the gunshots, but distinctly remembers the sound of the brass bouncing off the walls and floor. So I guess auditory exclusion is a real thing. Good to know.

[Viper 1-26 INF]

Just curious: Do you think "auditory exclusion" would nullify the noise, or do you think the people shooting from inside the car would be deafened? Shooting an AR15 inside a car has got to be loud as hell; I'm wondering what full auto must be like inside a car.

I can't speak for others, but in my own experience in copious amounts of combat in Afghanistan as an Infantryman and having never worn ear pro a single day in country, if your adrenaline is redlining and you are in a fight for your life you probably won't even notice it. When I'm in combat and someone has started shooting at me, firing weapons has no effect on my hearing and there is no ringing in my ears or pain after the firefight (my hearing goes right back to normal). However, when I'm at the range or out shooting in the desert, it hurts a lot and my hearing won't come back fully for a few days if I don't wear ear pro. I carried an M249 SAW for a good portion of my time in Afghanistan even as a team leader (we were undermanned after taking a large number of casualties) and have fired it in tight boxed-in fighting positions, inside HMMWVs, in houses and small rooms, caves, narrow draws, you name it... Not once did firing my weapon in combat situations hurt my hearing or leave me deafened, most of the time I didn't even notice the noise, and when I did it never seemed loud enough to be painful, and once the fight was over my hearing always went back to normal. I must add though, that I do have a slight bit of hearing loss now though from all those experiences.

So, I'm thinking once they knew they were being fired upon by the suspect, they probably didn't even notice the noise when they were firing back.

Interesting.
Another guy told me he used his pistol in self-defense against a mugger who attacked him inside an elevator. He said he doesn't remember hearing the gunshots, but distinctly remembers the sound of the brass bouncing off the walls and floor. So I guess auditory exclusion is a real thing. Good to know.

It is definitely a real thing, but can have differing effects for each individual.

[Steve_In_29]

Whether or not you notice it at the time, all that loud noise does indeed adversely affect your hearing.

From what I understand the VA has mostly stopped rating people on hearing loss as the military issues hearing protection now for combat.