The reality of finding food, "In the Woods"

[Steve_In_29]

For people who think the woods are easy pickings, teeming with food for the taking or that a couple of squirrels will suffice, here is a link to a good article that breaks things down into perspective.

It also lays out some of the work required to gather the items.

Living Off The Land: Delusions and Misconceptions About Hunting and Gathering

[Azbuilder]

So true. Many people have huge misconceptions. Imagine how large an area it takes to sustain a family of four in most areas of wilderness in Arizona ! Imagine if many thousands of people were trying to live off the land also.

[WRMorrison]

I always get out a kick out of those who say they'll "head north to the mountains!" when they "bug out." Sure, pal; you and a million other folks have the same delusion. Most of the people who live there know you'll be coming and have likely prepared for that scenario too. Even if you can get there, our wilderness simply can't sustain that many people...even if they all cooperated instead of killing each other over squirrels, jackrabbits and fish.

-WRM

[knockonit]

now one knows why the indians moved so much, used up the resources and moved on to fertile ground, for both growth of greens, and animals, including water.

hehe, yep, hell no one will make it north, they can't even go or come back on a logn weekend without fudging it up, those in the know , do know how and where to go.
happy thursday
Rj

[devildogandboy]

heading north would be the last place I would go. traffic is bad enough on regular days, can you imagine what it would be like with countless thousands of drivers heading to the north in a panic!

[AZGEEZER]

Living just N.E. of Show Low you realize things you really didn't pay attention to living in the valley. First and foremost.....your vision of surviving on what you can hunt gets fuzzy in a hurry. I've watched the deer and Antelope up here for years, and they're rather sparse in the population dept.

You would have better luck trying to survive on mice and rats. There's way more rodents up here than anything else. Anything that flies arrives during the summer months, after the first chill all but a very few leave for greener pastures.

The gardening season is short, you get just 1 chance to make it work. If it doesn't work your sunk since the evening temps will kill off almost everything around mid-October. If you had a greenhouse.....you would be much better off, you can really advance on food production. You could raise poultry, that is "if" you can grow enough food for them. If you let them free-range your in for a shock. Anything and everything wants what you have, from owls to hawks and the wild dogs or even the neighbors dogs along with coyotes. You think your going to run in the house and grab your rifle and come back to take care of business? Think again, in les than 2 minutes your flock is gone. There goes your eggs, your meat, and your survival.

Water: Your going to need lots of it, and all the time. Our well runs alot, not only for our fruit trees, but the small garden as well. Fruit trees take years to mature, and even though you net the tree birds still get in and eat most of it. Garden: Everything up here wants it, they think it's there just for the.

In a nutshell you almost need to do 24\7 sentry duty. You can go through a ton of shotshells up here in no time, but you have to give that some thought. Do you shoot the birds that eat your fruit? despite the fact they keep the insect population somewhat under control. Hard choice to make at times.

Now think about this real hard....

Folks live in the woods, have gardens and means to survive. Do you really think for a second they'll be eager to give what you want in the way of food for the asking knowing your getting what goes in there mouth is going into yours and not there's when they did all the work to get it.

A person can go through a lot of ammo up here just keeping the local wildlife away. Now think about how much more ammo you would go through keeping the 2 legged wildlife away as well. Folks are somewhat pleasent when they get what they want, and then Mr Hyde rears his head when the opposite happens.

Finding food in the woods....yeah right.

I don't see that working out well for 99.5% of the population. And I never ever want to experience that in my lifetime.

Trust me....I'm just summerizing here, things like soil ammendment, fertilizers, and spare parts play a role. Learning to roll your own and teaching others helps, you aint going to carry 200lbs of ammo on your back very far.

[knockonit]

lol, well said, now on to raiding the mormon outfits, lets hear about that. lol
Rj

[AZGEEZER]

Strange that being brought up since I'm inbetween 2 Mormon towns. They call them CANNERIES up here, and no I'm not a member.

Long story short, don't go in the direction of stealing. Up here folks think simple, and what food is in the cannery wont be there long. The Mormon folk seem to be a very proud group of people. Thievery of any kind during tough times would in all reality result in a sudden decrease in the population.

Lip service, sob stories, heart tugging reasons why your life is in the toilet falls on deaf ears.

[Steve_In_29]

AZGEEZER - we are kind of neighbors. I am on 36+ acres just to the east of St John's (another Mormon town). Which strangely enough, my Mormon neighbor in 29 Palms has relatives through marriage in.

[AZGEEZER]

AZGEEZER - we are kind of neighbors. I am on 36+ acres just to the east of St John's (another Mormon town). Which strangely enough, my Mormon neighbor in 29 Palms has relatives through marriage in.

I'm 1 mile difference between St Johns and Snowflake on the Concho hwy. I know you can relate to what it takes to survive in the mountains, but we're just outside of the mountains.

And if you've ever been in the LGS next to the Concho Post Office I'm sure we've met. LGS is gone now.

[AZGEEZER]

Living just N.E. of Show Low you realize things you really didn't pay attention to living in the valley. First and foremost.....your vision of surviving on what you can hunt gets fuzzy in a hurry. I've watched the deer and Antelope up here for years, and they're rather sparse in the population dept.

You would have better luck trying to survive on mice and rats. There's way more rodents up here than anything else. Anything that flies arrives during the summer months, after the first chill all but a very few leave for greener pastures.

The gardening season is short, you get just 1 chance to make it work. If it doesn't work your sunk since the evening temps will kill off almost everything around mid-October. If you had a greenhouse.....you would be much better off, you can really advance on food production. You could raise poultry, that is "if" you can grow enough food for them. If you let them free-range your in for a shock. Anything and everything wants what you have, from owls to hawks and the wild dogs or even the neighbors dogs along with coyotes. You think your going to run in the house and grab your rifle and come back to take care of business? Think again, in les than 2 minutes your flock is gone. There goes your eggs, your meat, and your survival.

Water: Your going to need lots of it, and all the time. Our well runs alot, not only for our fruit trees, but the small garden as well. Fruit trees take years to mature, and even though you net the tree birds still get in and eat most of it. Garden: Everything up here wants it, they think it's there just for them.

In a nutshell you almost need to do 24\7 sentry duty. You can go through a ton of shotshells up here in no time, but you have to give that some thought. Do you shoot the birds that eat your fruit? despite the fact they keep the insect population somewhat under control. Hard choice to make at times.

Now think about this real hard....

Folks live in the woods, have gardens and means to survive. Do you really think for a second they'll be eager to give what you want in the way of food for the asking knowing your getting what goes in there mouth is going into yours and not there's when they did all the work to get it.

A person can go through a lot of ammo up here just keeping the local wildlife away. Now think about how much more ammo you would go through keeping the 2 legged wildlife away as well. Folks are somewhat pleasent when they get what they want, and then Mr Hyde rears his head when the opposite happens.

Finding food in the woods....yeah right.

I don't see that working out well for 99.5% of the population. And I never ever want to experience that in my lifetime.

Trust me....I'm just summerizing here, things like soil ammendment, fertilizers, and spare parts play a role. Learning to roll your own and teaching others helps, you aint going to carry 200lbs of ammo on your back very far.

[Ballistic Therapy]

Everyone talks about what to hunt and what to grow and that is in good weather.
What will they do up north when there is 2 feet of snow on the ground and another big storm comes in ?
How many times have elk hunters had to be rescued up north because a snow storm came in and snowed them in and usually elk hunters have pretty good equipment ?

I am curious though , just what is everyone worried about that they think they need some place to bug out too ?
Do you really think that if the threat is so bad where you are now , that the threat won't follow you and the herds that will be going with you ?

[Jack Dupp]

I like how AZGEEZER puts it. Especially the part about decrease in population.

I have no visions of bugging out. If I can't survive bugging in, well then it's time to meet Jesus. Camping with the wife and kids is hard enough. Trying to survive with whatever we can haul up north? Fuggetaboutit.

And I've always laughed at the steal from Mormons bit. I grew up with them. Every male momo I know is an Eagle Scout. Are YOU?! Some of the most resourceful people I know. Read up on a little history, especially the Utah Territory. A lot of people only see the Pharisee-like outward morality and goody-two shoes dorkiness (especially at stake dances) exhibited by young males and missionaries. But I'm telling you behind that exterior are a lot of bad MFers. What do you think Rob Leatham is?

[Boriqua]

Long pig

[AZGEEZER]

I gave this some thought for a couple days, and here's pretty much the facts about bugging out.

Your going to need a place to bug out too. If you don't your in for a world of hurt, on a great many factors. Most people (I would say 99.8%) have no clue what life is like away from flush toilets, running water, electricity, or even ice cubes. Up here things require knowledge and abilities, and B.S. talk is neither, nor is what I call giggle talk.

I mentioned before about spare parts: Anything that moves wears out, it just takes time but it will fail. From personal experience.....spark plug wires, and even though the hoods are open the rats can and will chew the spark plug wires. Rodents teeth are always growing, they need to chew on things to shorten them, like house cats with there claws. We have a spare well pump just in case, but we pump water into a 2.5gal tank so if it goes we have a few days, always think ahead. Basically if you walk in the shop I'm not missing to much except the high dollar items. Most wells are set with 20' section of steel pipe, to get that out you need a rig to come in and lift it out. Back a few years I heard it cost $800 just for them to show up, plus more $ for labor. When times get tough just how much do you think they'll charge, if they can even get the gas to show up. You think your going to pull it out manually by yourself? with help even? We set ours in poly pipe, with torque arresters, much easier to pull out with 3 people, or in my case my tractor. Again you have to think ahead.

You need to be creative in a lot of ways and your always learning something new "IF YOU PAY ATTENTION" to the sounds and sights around you. Winds are brutal up here, I have a 8'x6' section of roof the winds wanted more than I did, so I have the knowledge and abilities to repair it, I have extra shingles as well. You always have to think ahead up here, what works right at the moment changes real quick and your back to square one in a heart beat.

I have been around many people most of my life, I can sniff out BS'ers in the blink of an eye. If anything requires people to bug out, how much B.S. do you think people that live here are going to hear. The ones that are here have invested a lot of money and a lot of time in what they have, and I'm pretty sure they're in no mood to listen to people that want what they have and have done absolutely nothing provable to have what they worked for.

Trust is something that is earned over time, and that could be a real long time depending on how the person thinks and what he sees. I've had people here half my age peter-out in less than an hour of physical labor, not what I would call a promotional bell ringer. Being sincere, nice, honest, high moral character are all traits that don't get a person more than the other person. Those are qualities that should be done all the time with self gratification being its own reward, not to con someone else.

If (and that's a big friggin if) anything goes down, folks here aren't going to go to sleep thinking oh that's there problem. They are going to be at condition yellow 24\7 and things can and will get rather dicey in seconds. Tempers are going to be short and the words spoken are going to be direct, and more then likely anyone that comes onto someones property is going to have the dangerous end of a weapon pointed at them. Whether or not they see it doesn't mean there isn't 1 ready and willing to take care of things. Just remember someone is in a place they're not supposed to be, things can and will go wrong fast.

The reality of it is this, unless you have a place to go, your boned in a big way. Don't think your going to "TALK" your way into someoneone elses property, let alone there dwelling, it wont work that way in real life.