Recommendations for force on force training?

[negativenines]

Can anyone recommend a training outfit that offers force on force (simunitions, not airsoft) training in the State? Handgun or handgun + rifle. Seems like good experience, but aside from a high profile training outfits like Shivworks I'm not sure where to look.

[dread_scott]

Independence training. They host the dude from shivworks and do close contact, simunition, etc.

[AJS214]

Glen Stilson of Independence Training and Cecil Burch of Immediate Action Combatives are your best options for what you are looking for.

They co-teach two classes, Close Contact Handgun and Entangled Handgun. Both classes together are informally referred to as 'ECQC Lite', as the material covered includes concepts like MUC, firing from thumb-pectoral index and compression, and in-fight weapons access with Craig Douglas' blessing. If you take a look at the Collective page on Shivworks' website, you will see Cecil is also listed there.

Some specific details to note:

- Entangled is meant to be taken by those who have already taken Close Contact. Close Contact requires that you have taken Glen's Defensive Handgun or similar handgun training from someone else. Just email him and ask.
- Both classes are 1.5 days, starting on Friday evenings at 7pm with about four hours of lecture and practical exercises, which won't need much more than yourself, maybe a flashlight, and perhaps something to take notes with. Saturday is when live-fire starts, then sanitizing for blue guns/knives and force-on-force.
- If you have training knives, you are welcome to bring them to Entangled and use them if you want, though the class doesn't cover edged weapon skills.
- The sim guns and sim rounds used are UTM man-markers, which to my understanding is less expensive and more reliable than Simunition equipment.
- You may retake these classes, or any other class previously attended with Independence Training, at a 50% discount. There is a very short list of folks who offer that kinda thing.

As others have said, Glen and Cecil have been known to host Craig in the past, though I'm under the impression that it'll be a while before the next time he can fit Arizona into his schedule to come back.

[negativenines]

Thank you for the recommendations and the detailed write up. I'll have to keep an eye out for a close contact handgun to be scheduled.