Minimum caliber you would CCW

[Harrier]

^^^ This
The only 380 I will carry is the 102gr Golden Sabre or my 103gr LRN loads.
There are enough compact 9mm that are the same size or smaller that the 380 is obsolete.

[Harrier]

Compare a Sig P290 or a Kahr CM9... they make the 380 obsolete for EDC. Not saying a 380 won't work, as it has been the go-to option for decades, but there is something better now...

Both .380 & 9mm use the same (.355~.356) dia. bullet so compare a 90gr XTP at 975fps (2.75"bbl) to a 124gr GoldDot at 1100fps (2.9"bbl) and which one has better penetration?
I had a Mustang - traded it for a Sig.
Also have a Beretta S70 & Bersa. Out of the 3.5"bbl I can get the 102gr GS up to 1000fps. Would have to test it for penetration and expansion but it is probably acceptable.

[knockonit]

ask someone whos been shot, they all hurt like a mo fo, of course there is always the fact of some sort of drug or adrenaline issue, but being shot is not like in movies. its real,it fricken hurts, and trying to describe it imo is almost impossible. once adrenaline is gone, big bad juju arrives
and of course a lot has to do with ''where'', and if a bone was hit,

so in reality we are back to the most important part: shot placement.
again just my opinion
rj

[Harrier]

Why am I comparing those two? I don't carry, own, or like those two.

Because you took issue with my statement that small 9mm are available that compare to, but outperform a 380...thus making it obsolete... and those are just 2 examples of a similar size with comparable bbl length, so that terminal performance can be somewhat compared - they are also just as concealable as the Mustang - it doesn't matter if you like them or not.

If any comparison is to be done, we need to know what the other person carries before we make untrue statements. I prefer, own, and sometimes carry a Colt Mustang. Compare the grip from it to the 365. The 365 can't even drop inside freely and makes it obvious that something is there. Compare it to the 43, another brick in the pocket. Shield? Yep, a brick too. Something better is untrue as well as everything is subjective. This opinion is totally irrelevant to the subject.

Getting hung up in some other person carrying what you disagree with is quite simply pointless.
I don't care what anyone else carries, I was just giving my opinion on the 380 vs 9mm.

I know they use the same bullet, but as a reloader, YOU of all people should know that you can't realistically stuff a 124 into a 380 case and expect it to perform.
of course not... I have tried 115gr and even it doesn't work in 380. So I compared two commonly available JHP for each caliber- the real question for each is penetration and expansion... I did a lot of research first and that is why I eventually switched from the Mustang to the small Sig...

And speaking of the XTP, if loaded correctly it gives some of the best performance out a 380 using a 90 grain and meets FBI protocols.

Expansion of the XTP in the 380 is iffy at best, good if it can maintain velocity so it can expand and it doesn't get clogged by clothing. IMO, the XTP seems to need a minimum velocity of about 950fps for reliable expansion, and in the 380 that is +P territory. However it still doesn't have the penetration FMJ does and I question if it meets those FBI requirements (which is also why some people alternate their JHP/FMJ load).

I really did tried to find the best SD load for my 380 before I gave up and bought a mini 9. Previous research indicated the Gold Dot to be more reliable expansion wise than the XTP, but also more expensive. A possible compromise design is the Magtech JSP- looks like an XTP with the HP filled with lead, but they are seldom available anymore. The 102gr Golden Saber proved to expand reliably and gives better penetration than the XTP due to its heavier weight. This is what I settled on for my 380 JHP loads. The 115gr 9mm was a non-starter as it is too long to seat or feed reliably.

Even out of a super short barrel the 9mm still has the velocity and weight to penetrate and expand... something with a 380 you cross your fingers and hope you get.

And as far as what's acceptable and what isn't, this entire thing is subjective to what the user feels comfortable with as far as penetration and expansion. I find a 147 HST as the gold standard while many would scoff and see the 124 HST as the gold standard, who's right or wrong? They both pass the FBI protocols. It's the end user that's right, and not anyone else. I am the end user, the mantle of what is pointless, what is better, etc., rides with me alone so I will keep being my own supervisor as far as this is concerned.
We do agree that HST is the better design, however I'm in the 124gr camp for pistol length barrels and 147 for carbines.

We as a community really need to stop worrying about others carrying what they disapprove of. We also as a community need to stop thinking that others don't know anything either as they're not the only person that shoots, carries, has knowledge, etc.

I won't comment any further as it appears your trying to make a point that is not relative to the original 380 v 9mm performance comment... we can just agree on having different opinions.

[Harrier]

ask someone whos been shot, they all hurt like a mo fo, ...

so in reality we are back to the most important part: shot placement.
again just my opinion
rj

i agree... I don't even want to get hit by a rock, let alone a 22... but if I have to carry a few oz of metal around as insurance, I want it to be the most effective available for the size and weight class.

[Vyadmirer]

I would say the availability of dedicated single stack 9mm carry guns have kinda made them the standard

[Harrier]

Your response is so off-base from what I said, I'm not even gonna try and address it...
I gave my opinion to the OP, you gave yours...
All I can say is... have another beer...

[azatty480]

Minimum, .380. Prefer 9mm +. The top new CCW 9mms are pretty much the same size and weight of .380s anyway.

[Hansen]

I just stay with 9mm. Inexpensive and it does the job as well.

[Eleroo]

9mm for me. With the size of the small 9mm carry guns now, its not worth dropping to a .380 just to get a slightly smaller carry gun.

[electrohawk]

It used to be .380
Then 9mm in a Kahr
Then the P365 came around. Now no excuse that I can't fit a pistol with 10+1 and a 15 round reload in my pockets.

[Abbey]

I usually carry a 9mm but carried a j-frame for years and never felt inadequate with .38spl+p

[the1_roadrunner]

I always carry .45 acp but 9mm would be my minimum.

[SecretV]

Obviously anything is better than nothing, but I'm assuming you mean daily use not shtf.
9mm because of price, capacity, availability, and commonality. Lots a 9mm guns out there, lots of 9mm out there, price is generally lower.