So many new scope manufacturers out there... new ones in the mix

Discuss firearm optics, sights, and scopes here (magnified, red-dot, iron sights, etc).
User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 947
Joined: April 30th, 2018, 7:39 pm
Reputation: 9
Location: Far North Phoenix
Contact:

So many new scope manufacturers out there... new ones in the mix

#1

Post by admin »

Admittedly, I've been a bit out of the mid-range scope market for a while. On the high end we used to have Premier Optics, Schmidt & Bender, US Optics and a few others.

Mid-range used to be Trijicon, Nightforce, Vortex, Bushnell, Leupold, IOR...

Budget optics were all over the place and very hit-or-miss. Decent budget ones like SWFA SS, Primary Arms... and horrible ones like pretty much anything else. Once in a while you could get a good one, but they often had mushy turrets, unreliable tracking and so-so clarity.

Seems the lines have blurred now. NF and Vortex have moved to provide a wider range with some in the high-end group now. Same with Bushnell. Others are into the game like Steiner, SIG, Athlon, and others. "Athlon" seems to be the new kid on the block for the low-cost "good quality" scope. Anyone using one? Are there other new options out there?


User avatar
Joe_Blacke
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 472
Joined: May 15th, 2018, 7:59 pm
Reputation: 1

Re: So many new scope manufacturers out there... new ones in the mix

#2

Post by Joe_Blacke »

Tangent Theta
Khales
Zero compromise

All are hot optics makers in the PRC community
User avatar
Bill Poole
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 132
Joined: May 14th, 2018, 9:43 pm
Reputation: 2

Re: So many new scope manufacturers out there... new ones in the mix

#3

Post by Bill Poole »

are there really a bunch of new "Manufacturers"? or just a bunch of importers? and every one of their scopes all manufactured in the same China People's Optics Factory Number 34 in ShenZhen?
User avatar
338lapua
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 1411
Joined: May 18th, 2018, 8:57 am
Reputation: 6

Re: So many new scope manufacturers out there... new ones in the mix

#4

Post by 338lapua »

Company in Tuscon selling optics, no clue where they are made.

https://www.ritonoptics.com/
User avatar
Basher
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 990
Joined: May 15th, 2018, 9:07 pm
Reputation: 13

Re: So many new scope manufacturers out there... new ones in the mix

#5

Post by Basher »

The precision market has exploded with the recent popularity of the PRS and NRL series, and frankly, I'm glad to see it (for the most part). There's now a plethora (que Three Amigos quotes...) of options to choose from, and most are worth the investment (though not all). Here's the rundown as I see it:

In my opinion, Leupold has fallen from grace, and did so quite awhile back. Their baseline Vari-X/VX II and III hunting optics are generally still worthwhile purchases, but anything beyond that and my eyes glaze over. The MK4 line was once a hallmark of the industry, and the older models are still worth it if you're making a replica of some kind. Any of the newer stuff seems vastly overpriced and under freatured. They want an extra $500 for illumination on the new MK5 line! :lol: Reticle options lag about a decade behind the industry unless you want to pay a premium for a Horus option.

Vortex has been a huge up-and-comer, and the Razor line is well worth the price (especially on the used market). I've had a Gen2 4.5-27x and a Razor AMG 6-24x in the past, and regret selling them (moreso the AMG, which I plan to replace soon), and the Gen2 PST line is earning a reputation much better than the Gen1 series had. The Razor HD LH line, at least for me, is replacing pretty much anything Leupold would have offered for me. I'm still waiting for a mil-based series of them, and want a 1.5-5x or similar straight tube, low mag series like Leupold has, but that's about it.

Burris/Steiner are great aside from some teething issues the T5Xi line had early on. I like the SCR reticle, though I prefer others over it. For what you pay, however, the XTRII line is excellent (glass can be hit or miss, but tracking has always been stellar), and you can find used T5Xi models for around $1200 or so (even the 5-25x56). The M5Xi continues to be spendy, but quality-wise is up there with S&B, though they could use a few new reticle options (that having been said, the MSR2 is being released in them, which while not a Christmas tree style reticle is still a fantastic upgrade to a classic field reticle).

Bushnell's LRHS/LRTS/DMR2/XRS2 lines have always sold well, and I have a soft spot for the LRHS/LRTS models (never had a DMR2/XRS2, or any of the older models) as they punch well above their weight in glass clarity, reliability, and feature set. The G2H reticle is a fantastic do-all option, and the G2/G3 reticles are an excellent option as well. Low-profile 10mil turrets are excellent, and the optics flat out perform.

Schmidt&Bender is still a top performer, and the PMII 5-25x56 is the optic many other companies based their current offerings on as the one to beat. They also have some more dated reticle designs, but the MSR2 will see release in some models as well, and their LRR reticle looks promising (who knows when it will see the light of day, though!). Turrets are excellent, if a bit tight on click spacing, but they're repeatable and visible. I prefer the DT style turrets over the MTC style, personally. Glass is phenomenal, as always. One of the of-quoted drawbacks is the illumination wart (limits ring spacing and mounting options, and can get in the way of left-handed action bolt knobs), and tunneling below 7x seems to draw criticism, but who shoots below 7x in a precision setting? Other models have cleared some of these issues up (the 3-20x and 5-20x Ultra Shorts, etc.), but the illumination wart remains.

Kahles is a hit on multiple fronts. The K624i has been a strong seller for them, and all of the SKMR reticles are winners (though I'm the most fond of the SKMR3). Some complain of chromatic abberation issues, but that's somewhat subjective. The new K318i and K525i are supposed to be a big upgrade over the K624i, and reports from early adopting end users are positive. The K525i hasn't yet been released, but reviews of the K318i are stellar, and it's absolutely amazing just how compact the scope really is for how well it performs.

Zero Compromise Optics (or ZCO) is a new player as of this year's SHOT show. Nothing's been released into anyone's hands yet, but everyone seems optimistic (including Frank Galli of SnipersHIde). Of all the new optics being released this year, these are the ones I most look forward to. The ZC420 appears to compete directly with the K318i, and the ZC527 lines up with most other high magnification optics out there (K525i, S&B PMII 5-25x, Steiner 5-25x, Vortex Razor 4.5-27x, etc.). The reticles look amazing, and the features and specs are promising, indeed. You'll pay for them (prices haven't been set, but appear to be estimated at $3200 for the ZC420 and about $3600 for the ZC527), but then again, this puts them in line with most Steiner/S&B/TT level "Tier 1" optics out there.

Minox has some surprisingly good scopes in the ZP5 line, and their MR4 reticle is a crowd pleasure as well. These are supposed to be of the same family of optical formulas as the Premier Reticles/TT scopes, though they're not quite the same (distant cousins, perhaps). Whatever they're based on, their an excellent choice! Earlier models had a second revolution indicator on the elevation turret that seemed to increase turret tension, which was a turn-off for some, but it's sense been corrected. Glass is, once again, world class. (Sensing a theme here? Once you're over the $2K mark, most all optics are going to be stellar performers, with the differences being minute and very user dependent as to whether you find them of value to you or not!)

USO still offers some great scopes with the new B series, though again, reticle options are a bit dated, and the scopes are still long and heavy. Some don't mind, others do. I've always been a fan of USO, but don't currently own any. For what you pay for a B17 or B25, you can step up to a S&B/Steiner (for some models), or get a used Vortex Razor and pocket a sizable difference. The big draw for USO back in the day was custom options, but those are currently limited. I still lust after an SN3 3.217x with an ERGO parallax adjustment, more for nostalgia reasons than anything.

Tanget Theta kind of tops things off. I've handled everything on this list in one way or another except for this one. User reports state the glass is out of this world, the turrets have the best feel of the bunch (and are tool-less!), and they're just flat out the best money can buy (so they say). Frankly, for about $1500 less, I'm happy with my S&B PMII. TT currently has very limited reticle selections (you can have it with any reticle you want, as long as it's a Gen2XR), though the rumor mill says additional options are in the works. My S&B sports a Gen2XR, and I like the reticle as a more "minimalist Christmas tree" option, but that's my point. I feel the only thing I'm REALLY missing out on for $1500 less is a tool-less turret setup. For me, I don't feel they're worth the premium, but they seem to sell well enough.

This, of course, only scratches the surface. There are countless other options (Athlon, Nikon has entered the market, Sightron has some new offerings, Revic appears to have a great offering, etc.), but this is what I've had the chance to either handle directly (aside from TT), or spoken to those who have them. This really is the "golden era" of precision optics, and it's very easy to become overloaded with options (as if my rambling post doesn't illustrate that well enough, haha). Best I can say is do a LOT of research before buying. Read everything you can, as there's no shortage of good info on multiple sites. Look at through the scope images of the reticles, and get your hands on them directly if you can. The AZ Long Range Precision Shooters club matches are an excellent opportunity to do just that, and it'll save you a lot of money in the long run!

Where I buying another scope today, given my primary use of precision matches with some light and very occasional hunting on the side, it would be a Vortex Razor AMG 6-24x50 with EBR-7B reticle. It offers almost everything the Razor Gen2 line does at about a pound less weight. If I wanted to wait awhile, the ZC527 is on my short list, though for a weight penalty. With any luck, Vortex will add to the AMG line next year with a 3-18x models or similar. Get it down to 26oz and 13-14", with all the same features in the current lineup, and it would be the all-purpose optic to beat, IMO!
User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 947
Joined: April 30th, 2018, 7:39 pm
Reputation: 9
Location: Far North Phoenix
Contact:

Re: So many new scope manufacturers out there... new ones in the mix

#6

Post by admin »

Very good write-up; thank you.

I used to own a smattering of optics from S&B PMII's to USO's, but quickly figured out that:

1) I own a lot of rifles that "need" scopes on them
2) I don't want to have to continually move optics from one rifle to another and re-zero
3) There is a lot of value in a homogenous reticle/turret/features environment on my rifles
4) I cannot afford to outfit my rifles with S&B or other top-tier scopes
5) My skills do not take me anywhere near the point of the optic being something that's holding me back from improving

So, I sold all my top-tier optics and generally went with NF NXS w/MLR and MRAD, in various magnifications depending upon the rifles they are on.

I still have a smattering of lesser scopes; some Burris, Bushnell and Vortex PST's, but they are on rifles I rarely use.
User avatar
Basher
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 990
Joined: May 15th, 2018, 9:07 pm
Reputation: 13

Re: So many new scope manufacturers out there... new ones in the mix

#7

Post by Basher »

Yeah, I'm kind of torn myself. I find I'm drawn to spendy optics, but I can't sustain the continual purchase of them, nor do I have an endless number of rifles to scope, so owning more scopes than I have rifles doesn't make much sense, really. Just so I'm clear, I've bought and sold most of the ones I've tried, because I couldn't justify having multiples, haha. There's no way I could justify having all of the scopes I've tried at once!

Right now, I have an S&B PMII 5-25x56 Gen2XR on an AIAT. It's not the best optic for a switch barrel rifle like the AT, but I'm not switching barrels often at the moment, and re-zeroing isn't TOO complicated or time consuming. That, and I think AI and S&B were a match made in heaven. That having been said, I have been tempted for some time to pick up a used Razor Gen2 or AMG in place of the S&B and pocket the difference (with patience, I could make around $800 going that route). The Razor would perform just as well as the S&B by all accounts, and actually have a slightly more useful reticle with better turrets for a switch barrel. I'm trying to talk myself into it, but we'll see.

As for the TL2 setup I'm building, that IS going to be a true switch barrel with .223, 6.5CM, and 6.5PRC barrels when it's done. The AMG makes the most sense there are it's light, has the L-TEC turrets that you can mark for different zeroes, and has an excellent reticle. It would work very well for both precision work as well as a long-range hunting rifle.

Were I not switching calibers so often, I think I'd probably just be putting Bushnell LRHS, Burris XTRII, or PST Gen2 scopes on most of my rifles. They all work about as good as the other, and for a lot less. There's a running thread over on SH about a guy running a Burris XTRII in local and regional comps, and he's placing very well with it, actually. As with most other things, as long as the gear is quality (and it's not hard to find quality gear in the $750-1000 range these days), it's the Indian, not the arrow, that wins or loses.

While I could absolutely run an SWFA 3-15x42 on my AI, it just doesn't seem right! :D
User avatar
samnev
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 718
Joined: May 15th, 2018, 8:27 am
Reputation: 4
Location: Surprise, AZ

Re: So many new scope manufacturers out there... new ones in the mix

#8

Post by samnev »

I too have to many rifles to put top tier scopes on all of them. So a few years ago I went to Bushnell's Elite line buying G2DMR'S and a few ERS scopes. I also bought 3 Burris XRTII scopes with the SCR reticle 1 4-20 and 2 5-25's. Been happy with all of these lower priced scopes.
Last edited by samnev on November 13th, 2018, 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
AGE Mechanic
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 35
Joined: May 20th, 2018, 10:46 am
Reputation: 0
Location: Phoenix

Re: So many new scope manufacturers out there... new ones in the mix

#9

Post by AGE Mechanic »

I would really like a S&B PMll. But I have to say, the Vortex Razor HD Gen1, is pretty awesome. You can’t beat their warranty either.
User avatar
thom
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 1220
Joined: May 20th, 2018, 10:49 pm
Reputation: 21
Location: chandler, near IKEA

Re: So many new scope manufacturers out there... new ones in the mix

#10

Post by thom »

338lapua wrote: May 18th, 2018, 9:32 am Company in Tuscon selling optics, no clue where they are made.

https://www.ritonoptics.com/
They had a display at the C2 Scottsdale Opening. The scopes were on the Daniel Defense rifles. Active Duty Veteran owned company.
User avatar
boulder
New to ArizonaShooting.org
New to ArizonaShooting.org
Posts: 19
Joined: May 23rd, 2018, 9:23 pm
Reputation: 0
Location: Chandler

Re: So many new scope manufacturers out there... new ones in the mix

#11

Post by boulder »

Use what is proven, or take a chance on what is new.

I'll take chances on new products from reputable manufacturers who have a good warranty. A lot depends on what you put it on, 9mm AR's, air guns can trash some scopes, but a regular 5.56mm AR is relatively soft in the recoil.
User avatar
428cj
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 297
Joined: May 19th, 2018, 6:52 am
Reputation: 3
Location: West Side

Re: So many new scope manufacturers out there... new ones in the mix

#12

Post by 428cj »

I use the Burris II 5x25x50 scope. Been very happy with it. It does very well at 1,000 yards and out. I think for the money it's one of the best bang for the bucks.
User avatar
Slater
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 78
Joined: May 26th, 2018, 8:50 pm
Reputation: 0
Location: Arizona

Re: So many new scope manufacturers out there... new ones in the mix

#13

Post by Slater »

About a year ago I ordered a new Steiner M536 optic. Very nice glass and built like a tank. However, the reticle was canted noticeably to the left so I returned it. This seems to be a not so uncommon issue with certain Steiner optics (and their Burris cousins), but hopefully they'll get it sorted out.
User avatar
cjr
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 88
Joined: May 29th, 2018, 7:12 am
Reputation: 2
Location: Goodyear

Re: So many new scope manufacturers out there... new ones in the mix

#14

Post by cjr »

I like Nightforce, Steiner, and vortex are just a few to mention.
User avatar
Azbuilder
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 206
Joined: May 27th, 2018, 3:47 am
Reputation: 0
Location: sun city

Re: So many new scope manufacturers out there... new ones in the mix

#15

Post by Azbuilder »

Thank you BASHER for the great summary !
Post Reply
cron