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Having a "friendly discussion" with a friend.
For those of you in the know... Is one of these a reload?

Can't tell from that picture. How about a picture of the bottom of the cases?

It appears the one on the left is. ...and possibly the right one also.
They both have the telltale sizing die reveal towards the base of the case.

azrik wrote: ↑October 5th, 2020, 11:51 am It appears the one on the left is. ...and possibly the right one also.
They both have the telltale sizing die reveal towards the base of the case.

That they do, but they don't have a telltale sizing die mark on the case necks, which sort of indicates they aren't. As has been said, let's see the bottom of the cases. That should tell the story.

Bofh em look like reloads?

Maybe maybe not. The long single scratches could be from a Dirty Die, or a Dirty chamber. There are some stretch marks on the right one (Which could indicate they were shot once and Re-sized ? But no real proof.

OK, pic of bottom now (same one left, same one right), and now I can see marks on the right one.
Here's what I'm getting at... said friend claims discoloration on the brass indicates heat from hot gases.
Is there anything to that?

no it could be discoloration from forming brass, one on right has crimped primer, so................

Pro2a wrote: ↑October 5th, 2020, 3:28 pm OK, pic of bottom now (same one left, same one right), and now I can see marks on the right one.
Here's what I'm getting at... said friend claims discoloration on the brass indicates heat from hot gases.
Is there anything to that?

Discoloration is from annealing process and the crimp on the right case indicates it to be a factory load.
Left case was crimped but may have been swaged.

knockonit wrote: ↑October 5th, 2020, 3:40 pm no it could be discoloration from forming brass, one on right has crimped primer, so................

So some factory machines discolor and some don't?
I've bought plenty of .223 ammo (in factory packaging that's mighty pretty.)
I also have a gang of Federal green tip that are all discolored, so he can put that theory in his pipe and smoke it....

azrik wrote: ↑October 5th, 2020, 4:10 pm

Pro2a wrote: ↑October 5th, 2020, 3:28 pm OK, pic of bottom now (same one left, same one right), and now I can see marks on the right one.
Here's what I'm getting at... said friend claims discoloration on the brass indicates heat from hot gases.
Is there anything to that?

Discoloration is from annealing process and the crimp on the right case indicates it to be a factory load.
Left case was crimped but may have been swaged.

The crimp, possible factory. I have bought 10's of thousands of cases that were primed and have crimped primer pockets (still do), but having no powder or bullet. Really difficult to tell either way.

As was said above, the discoloration is from the annealing process. It's more often the opposite - lack of discoloration is a result of tumbling after brass has been annealed, which would happen during the reloading process.

It used to be cheaper/easier to buy pull down 5.56 brass than it was to buy 1x and process it. Primers were still crimped and tar was still on the neck, so once loaded they were indistinguishable from factory LC when loaded with the right bullets.

Military production will usually show the annealing discoloration because a) it shows that it was done and b) it costs $ to polish it off.
Often OEM commercially sold ammo (even mil production cases like shown) will be polished shiny, removing the discoloration from annealing. For some reason consumers think shiny=better.

The FC head-stamp (+ no NATO cross) indicates it is a federal commercial run, the dot impressions indicate cases were probably loaded on mil equipment at LC plant (the dots indicate which machine). Commercial ammo don't usually have those dots.

IMO, It's hard to tell without a magnifier but the absence of other marks, nicks, indents, scrapes etc on the head/rim (which would occur upon firing) indicate the FC is also a factory round.

I'll now say I believe they're both factory.

Harrier wrote: ↑October 6th, 2020, 4:25 am The FC head-stamp (+ no NATO cross) indicates it is a federal commercial run, the dot impressions indicate cases were probably loaded on mil equipment at LC plant (the dots indicate which machine). Commercial ammo don't usually have those dots.

I just learned something new. Thanks!

Since the one on the left has (or at least had) a crimped primer, but no longer has the annealing discoloration, I'd guess that one is a reload. Also, it appears to have a pretty sizable ejection ding in the shoulder. Total speculation, but that's my guess.