Smoking reload help

[thom]

Whatever I reload and put into a glock gen 5 pistol 9mm or my M&P 9mm, it smokes. It doesn't smoke in my MPX. I have used titegroup, power pistol and blue dot powder. I have used berrys bullets and the red extremes and black coated bullets also. I have used 5.9 grains of Power pistol with a 115 grain bullet. I have used 5.0 and 5.3 of power pistol with extreme 124 red bullets. I think that I have cleaned the pistols good enough by just taking the slide off and spraying and wiping down with CLP. Has anyone else had a problem like this? I seat the bullets at the longest recommended measurement.

Thanks for any help.

Thom

[shooter444]

Don't own a Glock, never have. But, if one particular Glock of your's, smokes with powder, that other pistols DON'T,... my guess would be an over sized polygonal barrel, letting gas/powder escape ahead of the bullet.

I would slug the bore and compare measurements with the projectiles used.


jmo


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17-21-23
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[shooter444]

"The gen 5's all have the Glock Marksman Barrel, a modified polygonal. The .45 Glocks were never polygonal at all, which were and are, all octagonal."


OK,... I would slug the bore and compare measurements with the projectiles used.



__________________________________________________________________________
Oscar Wilde,...
“Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness.” __________________________________________________________________________
Creator Endowed Unalienable Human Rights, forever!
______________________
My inglorious foe/ignore list !

17-21-23
Crippletrigger
HDS
Marine1
Ranger1
Razorback
YNOTAZ
redj
smithers599
Steve_in_29
stomp442
MarkItZero
Jamnmike

[thom]

What does "slug the bore" mean?

[shooter444]

SLUGGING a bore, consists of forcing a soft, pure lead sinker, down a bore, which would result in the sinker taking the shape and dimensions of the bore,... allowing the exact size of the bore to be measured, from the soft, bore shaped, lead sinker.


__________________________________________________________________________
Oscar Wilde,...
“Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness.” __________________________________________________________________________
Creator Endowed Unalienable Human Rights, forever!
______________________
My inglorious foe/ignore list !

17-21-23
Crippletrigger
HDS
Marine1
Ranger1
Razorback
YNOTAZ
redj
smithers599
Steve_in_29
stomp442
MarkItZero
Jamnmike

[shooter444]

AZ1182,...Yes on the slugging info,... NO on the leading info!!!

TIGHT / OVER SIZED cast boolits, of at least 1,000th to 3,000ths over bore / groove size,... is how leading is prevented, with a proper lube. And, in actuality,... the latest opinions believe cast lead boolits should be 1,000th to 2,000ths over CHAMBER THROAT / FREEBORE SIZE, to prevent leading.



__________________________________________________________________________
Oscar Wilde,...
“Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness.” __________________________________________________________________________
Creator Endowed Unalienable Human Rights, forever!
______________________
My inglorious foe/ignore list !

17-21-23
Crippletrigger
HDS
Marine1
Ranger1
Razorback
YNOTAZ
redj
smithers599
Steve_in_29
stomp442
MarkItZero
Jamnmike

[792mauser]

Probably the powder.
And lead bullets are ALLgoing to smoke somewhat. Its the lube burning off.

If they're totally copper covered then yeah its almost likely the powders not playing well with your recipe.

And most of the powders you listed (especially bluedot) are going to smoke n foul unless heavily loaded.

And remember it's "SMOKE-LESS" powder, not no smoke powder.

[792mauser]

I bought some weird i think Spanish powder some years ago. Holy hell was it fast burning.
A little dab would do ya in 9mm to get 1200 fps with a 124.
But it smoked like nothing I'd ever seen since.
I miss that powder. Too bad I can't remember what it was called.

[YNOTAZ]

I bought some weird i think Spanish powder some years ago. Holy hell was it fast burning.
A little dab would do ya in 9mm to get 1200 fps with a 124.
But it smoked like nothing I'd ever seen since.
I miss that powder. Too bad I can't remember what it was called.

Spanish fly??

[792mauser]

[shooter444]

Well now, that is interesting,... parrots parroting outrageous BS. I was taught that Glocks shoot lead, just fine! I was taught that the problem resulted from parrots on the net, telling Glock owners to shoot jacketed bullets through leaded Glock barrels,... TOO CLEAN IT! I was taught that the leaded restriction is what caused the jacketed bullet to result in a ka-boom!!!

I think you need to use more exclamation points,... they can draw attention to points, one wishes to make!!!


__________________________________________________________________________
Oscar Wilde,...
“Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness.” __________________________________________________________________________
Creator Endowed Unalienable Human Rights, forever!
______________________
My inglorious foe/ignore list !

17-21-23
Crippletrigger
HDS
Marine1
Ranger1
Razorback
YNOTAZ
redj
smithers599
Steve_in_29
stomp442
MarkItZero
Jamnmike

[Harrier]

First of all, it seems this thread has gone off into "Good-Gosh another Glock polygonal rifling and lead thread" (edited)... totally ignoring the S&W and Sig references...

S&W doesn't use polygonal rifling... so the issue isn't related to lead bullets (which sometimes smoke more due to the lube)

Next he mentions Berry's bullets (which are copper plated) and also a couple powder coated lead ones, which also don't smoke... so it ain't the bullets...

Finally he lists 3 powders and states that the same loads don't smoke in his Sig carbine... why do you think that is? Could it be because it has a longer barrel and the powder burns completely before exiting?

Now that we've narrowed the issue down to two pistol length barrels, what could the causes be?
o- Powders that are known to smoke in short barrels
o- Powder charges that are too low to burn efficiently in the short tube.
o- Insufficient pressure allowing incomplete combustion to escape around the case mouth, causing smoke and showing smokey ends on the cases.

I'm going with 2 & 3... Looking at the Alliant website guide, for the 115gr copper plated 9mm load, it lists 7.1gr of Power Pistol for the MAXIMUM load.
They also list 6.4gr as the max load for the 124gr GoldDot (another 'plated' bullet... plated are loaded similar to lead)
Power Pistol is known to create lots of gas and flash in short barrels. It is often loaded toward the upper end to get higher pressure and max velocity, so I suspect the smoke is due to the OP's loads are insufficient to burn completely.

Unfortunately Alliant doesn't list minimum or starting loads, so we will have to estimate it other ways. In addition many feel the Alliant data is inaccurate- some say it's weak, others say it's over max, so it's better to get a consensus from several sources and find a starting place somewhere in the middle. Using the the 124gr GD max of 6.4gr and using a 10% Off-the-cuff reduction, would put it in the 5.7gr range

Speer #13 lists a min-Max range for Power Pistol and the 124 GD as 5.6~6.4gr so I think we can yell BINGO! (<-exclamation). The max the OP lists is 5.3... (<-ellipse) well under the recommended Speer start and my -10% estimated minimum.

I think further googling will show the 115gr to also be weak as the 7.1 max will also have a higher min (about 6.4) since lead and copper plated bullets typically have higher charges overall than regular copper jacketed bullets.

BlueDot is another 'high pressure' powder meaning it doesn't perform well in light loads. It needs a certain pressure lever to burn efficiently, however it can spike pressure rather quickly... so working up slowly in the small 9mm case is a must - IMO it is more suited for magnum size cases.

Tightgroup is a relatively fast burning powder developing high pressures with small charges. It seems to have a small range between min-max so you have to be extra cautious with it. (many, many kabooms reported from people using this powder).

I've been loading since the 60's so my advice is to use several manuals, not just one -avoid data you get off the net, until you are confident with it... work up loads carefully 'in you guns' and pay attention to the composition and OAL for different bullets. Go over to the Castboolits website or some of the other well known reloader hangouts and read what others are saying.
and...
(use ellipsis... instead of exclamations!)

[redj]

Why does someone always come along and make sense ?
You do know you are just ruining it for everyone else.

[Harrier]

Why does someone always come along and make sense ?
You do know you are just ruining it for everyone else ...

there... I fixed it for ya...

[Flash]

Harrier and I both came to the same conclusion. Mine is on the other board.