LLC for suppressor

[YNOTAZ]

One other point based on the original post. An LLC is not secret. I can go to the AZ Corp Commission web site and see all the members. A trust, can have a one page "declaration of Trust" and that is all that is needed to show anyone. As far as the ATF, as M4 mentioned if you have one responsible party the paperwork is the same as am individual except you include a copy of the trust.

There is one more game people are playing and it is perfectly legal. Create a master trust with your spouse, 4 children, all your aunt sand uncles as trustees. make a carbon copy of that trust with you as the only trustee and the beneficiary is the master trust. Name each "sub-trust" with something like NFAHybridxxxxxx where xxxxxxx is the serial number.

The benefit is you are the only responsible party so only one set of finger prints. when you die, all your NFA items are left to the master trust named "MrSmithScrewsTheMan" and all the trustees named have access to all the NFA items.

Think about your needs and your future but don't do an LLC, way to public go trust instead.

[Wrenchman]

That is great info. Thank you very much. Thinking trust may be way to go. Only thing that bothers me is the fact I have to leave a grand sitting out there for that length of time.

[AZ Husker]

I originally was going to name my daughter as a beneficiary in my trust, but the lineage ends there. Instead I put her down as a Trustee and my granddaughter as a beneficiary.

[YNOTAZ]

Husker makes a good point and it reminded me of another benefit of a trust over an LLC.

If written correctly, you can modify a trust without notifying anyone, like add or remove a beneficiary or add or remove a trustee. A hypothetical, due to an injury you can no longer shoot but you want your NFA items to continue appreciating and not change ownership and you will not be adding to your collection. You simply amend the trust to add whoever, you want to allow access, as a trustee and they or others can still be beneficiaries after you die.

Think through the beneficiary part so you add alternates, another Hypothetical: you have one son and your wife hates guns, your son is your only beneficiary, he moves to Chicago for a new job, you die, he can't legally own or even posses any of your NFA items due to state and city laws there, or he gets a felony DUI, etc. Have an alternate.

If you have an LLC on the other hand you have to be concerned about what your state does with an LLC after you die. In some states they automatically terminate a sole member LLC. That is not what happens in Arizona but this is worth reading for anyone wanting an LLC or already having one:

https://www.keytlaw.com/azllclaw/operat ... -your-llc/

[h8pvmnt]

There are no lawyer fees to start an LLC and in fact its probably easier and as cheap as doing a trust. Its literally a few online forms on the AZ Corporation Commission website and nominal fees. At least in AZ. That said the reason i went the LLC Route was to avoid CLEO sign off and Fingerprints. But that changed and now you need them regardless if its a trust, LLC or individual. So the LLC has no real appeal anymore other than its an entity that does not die similar to a trust. My NFA LLC is now included in my Family Trust so the same thing was accomplished. The last things i have done NFA wise i have just done individually its simpler. There are mechanisms to do tax free transfers in the event of your demise. If the Silencer shop ever gets there form 1 to be a regular thing i will never do a transfer any other way. My last suppressor came through relatively fast using the silencer shop kiosk and there form 4.

[Pscipio03]

The benefit of the Trust in the past was that you didn't need to get the Crown's, aka LEO, permission to submit your paperwork to the NFA. When I was living in Michigan, the Kalamazoo police chief was a total dickbag who didn't believe any non-LEO should have a suppressor or SBR/SBB. So if you were doing an individual Form 1 or 4 you had to go to the assistant DA's office and get him to sign off on it. With a Trust, you skipped all that nonesense. Plus, the Trust eForm 4's were getting approved in less than 90 days, while mail in Form 4's and individuals were taking 9+ months. My first can took 63 days.
The passing of 41f screwed all that up. Now, you have to get everyone on trust that is a trustee has to get fingerprinted as well. But, now you just have to 'notify' your LEO of your submission, you don't have to get their permission. YNOTAZ is correct that every time you add another NFA item to your trust you can remove the trustees then add them back in after the items is officially added in, but something about doing that seems grey.

[Wrenchman]

@P@Pscipio03 my wife works for Sherriff Lamb and he is a fantastic guy, so no worries if he has to sign off on it. Glad I dont live in Maricopa county lol. I think I will stop by on-site shooting here I casagrande and talk to Dan the owner. He is a great guy. Someone had mentioned earlier that some dealers will help set it up for a flat fee.

[Pscipio03]

@P@Pscipio03 my wife works for Sherriff Lamb and he is a fantastic guy, so no worries if he has to sign off on it. Glad I dont live in Maricopa county lol. I think I will stop by on-site shooting here I casagrande and talk to Dan the owner. He is a great guy. Someone had mentioned earlier that some dealers will help set it up for a flat fee.

My point really being is- do you need one? There's still some merit to having one (or a firearms Trust in the first place) in that if for some reason you are ever incapacitated to the point that you can't use them anymore, to include legal reasons, the trust technically owns them so they pass on to the trustees. But, if you're not going to list responsible persons (people who could use the items without you being present), because you don't want them getting fingerprinted, and if you don't care that they could go into probate, I'm not sure I see the attractiveness of the trust anymore. As was pointed out earlier, if no one on your trust will really want the things in the first place, it might be a waste of time. I stopped using a trust after 41f was enacted and honestly, I doubt my wife will want any of my SBRs or cans, so let em go into probate. Only person who would passively be interested is my BIL, and he lives in a different state, so no idea how that would impact a transfer.

[Wrenchman]

I have my wife and 2 kids that I would like to leave it to. Plus I have a brother that is CO that is an avid shooter and would love to have it. Plus if I have already paid for it and all the taxes on it, I really dont want the goverment getting it back lol

[YNOTAZ]

Check with an attorney but my understanding is within the a trust you can stipulate that if you are disabled a successor is automatically appointed to assist you in administering the trust. That keeps them off of "responsible party" finger prints etc. until your death or disability.

And I'm with you I don't want any of my property beyond the junk drawer in the kitchen going through probate court, and especially any of my NFA items I can't imagine what will happen with a liberal judge like the guy handling the Flynn case ruling on SBRs, machine guns, SBSs, and Cans. What would it cost to force him to rule according to the law.

I made it easy, I have a successor trustee and beneficiaries with contingencies in case any of the beneficiaries are prohibited for any reason.

[Pscipio03]

I have my wife and 2 kids that I would like to leave it to. Plus I have a brother that is CO that is an avid shooter and would love to have it. Plus if I have already paid for it and all the taxes on it, I really dont want the goverment getting it back lol

Then Trust is the best way to go for you.
Plenty of attorneys that can help you out with them- just make sure they specialize in firearms law so that they can answer any questions you might have about it. Lot of ‘plug-n-play’ attorneys that only know how to fill in boilerplates and know absolutely nothing about the actual laws surrounding NFA items in particular.