SBR Qs

Discuss any Title II or NFA items like machineguns, suppressors, SBR's, SBS's, DD's and AoW's.
Ranger1
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Re: SBR Qs

#16

Post by Ranger1 »

Ok this goes to the OP.
1. Why do you want a SBR?
2. Why do you not want a pistol with a
brace?
Just asking before I give you my opinion.


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XJThrottle
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Re: SBR Qs

#17

Post by XJThrottle »

Simple answer, I think AR pistols are lame. Especially with a "brace" you can shoulder. The AR buffer tube kills it for me

AK pistol, or AK with a folder, is a different story. .

At any rate, I have already started the SBR process. Stamps for the gun, and suppressor, are "checks cashed", so it's a waiting game now.
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Re: SBR Qs

#18

Post by Ranger1 »

The reason I ask is the the shockwave blades are real good and if you want to travel outside the state before you leave you need to send a letter to the ATFE and tell them when,where,how,and what time you will be back with it. Not to mention the states you might travel through that might not approve of your SBR. A pistol with a brace is just a pistol
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Re: SBR Qs

#19

Post by XJThrottle »

I have pistols for pistol stuff. I'll leave the SBR at home if need be. In the short term I only really see myself going from AZ to Oklahoma. All states on that drive allow SBR and suppressor.

Aside from being fun, HD was a driving factor in building it.
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Re: SBR Qs

#20

Post by Desert Rat »

Thanks for the info as well. That will probably be one of my next builds. I will need to save this thread!!
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Re: SBR Qs

#21

Post by mikeAZ »

Sooooo.... WHY the stamp for SBR's in the 1st. place???... Anyone know what was the reasoning ilong ago??..NFA 1937 ?? (Noting all the paper work could be done is days not months or years, in some cases). Probably never see suppressors off the list either.... Guess it gives someone a nice cushy job, wonder how many "they" process in a day????.... Yawn, yawn...Time for coffee break, lunch, computer BS.
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Re: SBR Qs

#22

Post by Muzap »

mikeAZ wrote: August 7th, 2018, 7:30 pm Sooooo.... WHY the stamp for SBR's in the 1st. place???... Anyone know what was the reasoning ilong ago??..NFA 1937 ?? (Noting all the paper work could be done is days not months or years, in some cases). Probably never see suppressors off the list either.... Guess it gives someone a nice cushy job, wonder how many "they" process in a day????.... Yawn, yawn...Time for coffee break, lunch, computer BS.
SBRs and SBSs were regulated due to their perceived ease of concealment.
The original draft of the NFA included pistols as well, for the same reason. That part was dropped before it was passed.
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Re: SBR Qs

#23

Post by delta6 »

mikeAZ wrote: August 7th, 2018, 7:30 pm ......Noting all the paper work could be done is days not months or years, in some cases). Probably never see suppressors off the list either.... Guess it gives someone a nice cushy job, wonder how many "they" process in a day????.... Yawn, yawn...Time for coffee break, lunch, computer BS.
mikeAZ you pose an interesting question. Some insight...1st...in 2016 the BAT folks processed 2,530,209 NFA forms. There are about 16 examiners (some seasoned employees and some trainees). Doing the math that is about 76 forms per day. The greatest reason for the long wait times is the fingerprint check. Since the FBI boys hold the keys to the files, the ATF doesn't have access to the files 24-7. This has always been a problem going back as far as the 1970's.

2nd issue is that the BAT folks still work with paper. Old computer systems rule with the NFA. Processing NFA transfer paperwork is pretty low on budget assessments. Most of the dollars go to the LE side of the agency.

3rd issue is the revenue received from transfer fees (and it is a lot, in 2016 $68M, occupational licenses and tax stamps) as with most governmental agencies, the revenue goes to the general fund. Most of that income again goes straight to the LE side of the department.

4th issue is errors on forms submitted. If you talk to any examiner (some which are gun people), their number one issue is paperwork errors by the submittee.

5th and final issue is turn over. For most all, the NFA examiner position is an entry level position within the BATFE. Most examiners move on within a year or two, either within the BATFE or on to another government agency. Years ago, I had a great examiner Daniel P. Gun guy, returned calls and knew his stuff. Actually met him in person at the SAR show here in Phoenix. He became an examiner, put in his time, solely so he could transfer to the BATFE gun vault and work as tester-examiner and play with interesting guns everyday.

I can understand the "b****" or concern about the wait times, 6-8 months on a form 4 and 2-3 months for some dealer transfers, but in that there is a silver lining. The transfer tax is still only $200. Not that $200 is chump change, but to equate that in 1934 dollars in 2018, that would make transfers around $3761.28.

The wait times suck, we can all agree, but the longer we keep this part of the industry below the radar of BATFE higher ups and Congress the better we will all be in the long run.
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Re: SBR Qs

#24

Post by Ranger1 »

The engraving goes onto what ever part that has the serial number on it. Back when I was going to SBR my Sig swat pistol the upper had the serial number on it, not the lower. I thought that was weird but that's what SGC told me. I backed off and just put a brace on it.
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Re: SBR Qs

#25

Post by Tim McBride »

Ranger1 wrote: April 4th, 2019, 3:51 pm The engraving goes onto what ever part that has the serial number on it. Back when I was going to SBR my Sig swat pistol the upper had the serial number on it, not the lower. I thought that was weird but that's what SGC told me. I backed off and just put a brace on it.
It is not required to be put with the same part as the serial number.
On an AR it can be put on the upper, barrel, etc. It just has to meet the depth and size requirement, and be in a visible spot(Although previously allowed ATF no longer allows you to engrave the lower were the pistol grip would cover the markings).
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Re: SBR Qs

#26

Post by Ranger1 »

The way it was explained to me by Scottsdale gun club and I will check with one of my manufacturers but the engraving had to be with the part that was serialized. Because that's the part that was documented as a SBR. I'll check again.
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Re: SBR Qs

#27

Post by Ranger1 »

Just got off the phone with one of my manufacturers. He said you can use the serial number of the gun as the SBR number on the paper work and or get another number but that number has to be engraved on the serialized part of the gun. So I don't know how sig got away with serializing there uppers on the 556 swat pistol and not the lower with trigger group in it but they did.
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Re: SBR Qs

#28

Post by Tim McBride »

Ranger1 wrote: April 4th, 2019, 6:25 pm The way it was explained to me by Scottsdale gun club and I will check with one of my manufacturers but the engraving had to be with the part that was serialized. Because that's the part that was documented as a SBR. I'll check again.
The gun is an SBR, not the receiver.
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Re: SBR Qs

#29

Post by Tim McBride »

Ranger1 wrote: April 4th, 2019, 6:34 pm Just got off the phone with one of my manufacturers. He said you can use the serial number of the gun as the SBR number on the paper work and or get another number but that number has to be engraved on the serialized part of the gun. So I don't know how sig got away with serializing there uppers on the 556 swat pistol and not the lower with trigger group in it but they did.
I was an 07/02 for a long time.
The serial number you use is the one on the lower. The portion where you engrave your info (name, City/State) does not have to go on the receiver. ATF has a section of the NFA handbook devoted to engraving.
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Re: SBR Qs

#30

Post by Ranger1 »

Yes u r right. But if you ever needed to change out your upper reciever or rebarrel, you will have to go get the new parts re engraved. That's why all my friends were telling me to engrave the lower. If I had to change out a broken part I wouldn't need to re engrave said part.
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