Turkish Semi auto shotguns

Discuss shotguns.
User avatar
madmike
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 132
Joined: July 19th, 2018, 5:34 pm
Reputation: 2
Location: Tucson

Turkish Semi auto shotguns

#1

Post by madmike »

Anyone have a honest opinion of the Turkish guns,Tri star raptor,Citadel etc.Would love to hear if these guns would withstand a 3-gun competition season for instance.


User avatar
DrEarlCordova
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 206
Joined: May 14th, 2018, 6:11 pm
Reputation: 0
Location: Arizona

Re: Turkish Semi auto shotguns

#2

Post by DrEarlCordova »

Don't have a semi auto, but do have some Turkish pumps.
I noticed that there are no spare parts available for my guns other than a really long barrel.
Plus I don't think they will stand up to a lot of abuse, but mine are carried a lot and not shot much.
QuietM4
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 1502
Joined: May 15th, 2018, 8:36 pm
Reputation: 9
Location: Tempe

Re: Turkish Semi auto shotguns

#3

Post by QuietM4 »

The Charles Daly 601 DPS and the Toros Copolla T4 are your best options. Both are clones of the Benelli M4, and nearly all of the parts are interchangeable.

Any of the other Turkish made cheaper shotguns, like the AR looking stuff, will most likely not hold up to competition. You won't find too many accessories for them, and finding replacement parts will be a headache.
User avatar
mallic
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 173
Joined: August 22nd, 2018, 5:11 am
Reputation: 0
Location: Phoenix

Re: Turkish Semi auto shotguns

#4

Post by mallic »

I had a Turkish made gas operated TAC SX2 and after 250 rounds of target load and 100 rounds of S&B buckshot, the bolt sheared in two. Also had a Turkish made .357 revolver and it broke after 10 rounds of magtech .38 special. I no longer trust Turkish guns. I am sure their higher end stuff is decent, but I won't risk it with all the quality manufacturers world wide.
User avatar
Kingjoey
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 760
Joined: July 3rd, 2019, 8:18 pm
Reputation: 3
Location: Casa Grande

Re: Turkish Semi auto shotguns

#5

Post by Kingjoey »

We build aftermarket parts for the Escort MPA shotguns, those are made by Hatsan and I've been exceptionally impressed by them. Done a lot of mods to them for guys running them in 3-gun matches as well
User avatar
brian10x
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 501
Joined: May 15th, 2018, 7:44 pm
Reputation: 3
Location: Tucson

Re: Turkish Semi auto shotguns

#6

Post by brian10x »

On the subject of Turkish shotguns, I recently bought a Garaysar Fear-118 just as a range toy, mostly. While stripping it down, I noticed the serial number appeared to be PAINTED on the receiver. Granted, it was on there pretty good, maybe even slightly etched, but when I refinish it, its gonna sand right off. Strictly speaking, this ain't legal. I looked hinther and yon for another serial number, it ain't there. It wasn't on the receipt, I bought it online (and legally transferred) but no engraved numbers---anywhere.

While I'm at it, the owner's manual is sadly lacking. No mention of magazine capacity, guage, or much of anything else. Just a few pages of broken Engrish.

While I'm here, gosh darn I'd like to find a picatinny mount for it, but no one sells accessories for this--- thing.
User avatar
Pro2a
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 852
Joined: May 14th, 2018, 4:21 pm
Reputation: 11
Location: Buckeye

Re: Turkish Semi auto shotguns

#7

Post by Pro2a »

Kingjoey wrote: July 12th, 2021, 8:33 am We build aftermarket parts for the Escort MPA shotguns, those are made by Hatsan and I've been exceptionally impressed by them. Done a lot of mods to them for guys running them in 3-gun matches as well
Coming from a gunsmith, this holds weight with me.
Are they M4 clones?, They look like it....
The $400 price tag worries me slightly
User avatar
kenpoprofessor
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 1005
Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 4:10 am
Reputation: 2
Location: Phoenix

Re: Turkish Semi auto shotguns

#8

Post by kenpoprofessor »

Kingjoey wrote: July 12th, 2021, 8:33 am We build aftermarket parts for the Escort MPA shotguns, those are made by Hatsan and I've been exceptionally impressed by them. Done a lot of mods to them for guys running them in 3-gun matches as well
I have an Escort pump I bought even before I got to AZ, seems well made and functions beautifully. I'm looking at their Semis now, but that TAVOR is calling me. :o

Have a great, gun carryin', Kenpo day

Clyde
User avatar
Kingjoey
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 760
Joined: July 3rd, 2019, 8:18 pm
Reputation: 3
Location: Casa Grande

Re: Turkish Semi auto shotguns

#9

Post by Kingjoey »

Pro2a wrote: July 18th, 2021, 2:00 am
Kingjoey wrote: July 12th, 2021, 8:33 am We build aftermarket parts for the Escort MPA shotguns, those are made by Hatsan and I've been exceptionally impressed by them. Done a lot of mods to them for guys running them in 3-gun matches as well
Coming from a gunsmith, this holds weight with me.
Are they M4 clones?, They look like it....
The $400 price tag worries me slightly
They are probably closer to an 1187 as far as design/operation goes. Have had no issues with any of the Escort autos, still have the first one I got 15yrs ago. Its been heavily modified, but it has eaten over 12k rounds without a hitch and it can shoot about 6rds/second
User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 817
Joined: April 30th, 2018, 7:39 pm
Reputation: 7
Location: Far North Phoenix
Contact:

Re: Turkish Semi auto shotguns

#10

Post by admin »

First off, you can't discount "Turkish" as crap simply because some guns made in Turkey suck. My Turkish-made Zenith MP5 clone is spot-on. Never had issues with it and it is a GREAT SBR.

But, on the subject of Turkish shotguns, I recently became aware that Benelli's patent on the M4 expired, which is why there are clones coming out right now. So what did I do? I did some research on the clones, then bought ONE specific model of the 3 clones I am aware of along with a real Benelli M4 to compare them. From my research, there are at least 3 clones (all Turkish made as far as I know) out at the time of me writing this that I am aware of:

Charles Daly 601 DPS
SDS Imports S4 (aka Panzer M4)
SDS Imports TAC-12


I researched them like only an internet junkie can do and ended up purchasing a new Benelli M4 (M1014/11701) and a new SDS Imports TAC-12. Was also going to get the S4 to compare, but opted not to spend another ~$500-600 to get that as the two I did get were expensive enough.

I did buy some upgrades for them. On the M4, I really missed my LE edition with the adjustable stock, so I purchased the 3 position recoil tube to "fix" it, along with Dave's Metal Works 7 round mag tube (with wolf spring). Of course, I also purchased the Boatch KZ handle and the requisite 922r parts (hammer, disconnector, trigger). For the TAC-12, I purchased the Benelli Supernova 5 position complete recoil tube (with the guts) and the Supernova adjustable stock and pistol grip. I had done that mod on my Benelli M3 Super90 previously, so I knew it would take some work and some light customization to do it - but I wasn't willing to pay the crazy cost of the full M4 telescopic kit and furniture. The Supernova stock doesn't look as good as the M4 tele stock, but functionally, it's probably even a bit better anyway.

To be clear, all my thoughts thus far on each of these shotguns mentioned above are based on appearance and handling only - not shooting.

That said, the CD clone had a lot of little things that were obviously done for cost savings, and almost every video review of it says what a horrible PoS it is. Plastic parts like the rear sight, rail, etc... I'm sure some people have one that works fine, but I wasn't willing to take the risk on that one. Further, it doesn't appear to be an exact clone or one of great quality even if it's functional.

As for the SDS Imports S4 - that one may function like a Benelli M4, but it has some appearance things that didn't look 100% correct to me that seemed to be fixed and addressed with the slightly more expensive SDS Imports TAC-12. For example, if you look at the front of the S4, you will see that the barrel protrudes a bit farther out past the end of the mag tube than the TAC-12 and M4. The trigger guard is oddly shaped, the finish on the loading ramp appears to just be blued, the rear sight was more "crude", the bolts used don't match the M4 and TAC-12, and the overall fit/finish appear to be inferior to both the TAC-12 and M4. The latter point about the fit/finish is what SDS Imports said is the big differentiator between the S4 and TAC-12.

As for my M4 and TAC-12, I received them earlier this week and stripped them both down to the bare receiver to compare and they are almost identical. Other than the TAC-12 stock and the recoil tube it uses under it, the only differences I could find were:
  • The magazine tube used a collar where it screws into the receiver where Benelli uses a machined step in the tube
  • The overall finishes are comparable in quality, but the TAC-12 is a bit darker overall than the M4
  • The loading gate/lifter on the TAC-12 is a matte chrome type finish and on the M4, it's a matte bronze/gold-ish finish
  • The TAC-12's hammer and disconnector are a gray color while they are black on the Benelli
  • The OEM trigger on the Benelli is a parked color and the OEM trigger on the TAC-12 is black
  • The rear of the receiver (with the stock removed) on the TAC-12 doesn't have an index hole for a pistol grip stock whereas the M4 does
  • The TAC-12 has removable chokes and the M1014/11701 doesn't (though other M4 models do)
  • The Benelli handguards say "left" and "right" on the inside, while the TAC-12's don't
Those are the only differences I could find upon inspection. I even swapped parts to see if they'd fit - and they do. Even the TAC-12's mag tube follower matches the Benelli's down to the chromed red color. All-in-all, the TAC-12 is absolutely a clone of the M4 in appearance and build. I didn't really see where any corners were cut in a significant way other than the magazine tube profile.

When I had them apart, I put the 922r parts in both shotguns, and on the M4, I added the DMW 7 round mag tube, and wolf spring - the DMW mag tube matched the M4's finish perfectly. I will add the 3 position recoil tube later this week. On the TAC-12, I removed the OEM 5rd mag tube and replaced it with the OEM Benelli 5rd mag tube that I took off the M4, then used the OEM Benelli magazine spring (which was considerably longer than the OEM TAC-12 magazine spring) and added the KZ +2 mag tube extension. It didn't match exactly, but was closer to the Benelli's M4 mag tube color than the darker black of the TAC-12's color. I also removed the TAC-12's OEM stock and retrofitted a Benelli Supernova 5-position collapsible stock. The buffer tube replacement was fairly easy, but the Pistol Grip required some fitting to get it to work properly. I was already familiar doing that custom job because I did the same Supernova stock mod to my Benelli M3 Super90 previously. Anyway, I got the stock and grip on, reassembled and it looks good.

End result is that I turned my ~$650 TAC-12 "M4 clone" into a ~$1500 "M4 clone" . Still considerably less than a Benelli M4 with a LE adjustable stock though. Now to take them out shooting at some point.

Image
User avatar
AZDESERTRAT
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 432
Joined: July 1st, 2018, 7:19 am
Reputation: 9
Location: Tucson

Re: Turkish Semi auto shotguns

#11

Post by AZDESERTRAT »

I bought the panzer s4 but haven't gotten around to firing it yet. As with your observation admin it looks very well made. Can’t wait to hear how your compatible testing goes on the range as I’m sure you’ll get to running yours through the paces Well before mine makes it out of the safe! Lol
User avatar
kenpoprofessor
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 1005
Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 4:10 am
Reputation: 2
Location: Phoenix

Re: Turkish Semi auto shotguns

#12

Post by kenpoprofessor »

admin wrote: July 29th, 2021, 1:38 pm

End result is that I turned my ~$650 TAC-12 "M4 clone" into a ~$1500 "M4 clone" . Still considerably less than a Benelli M4 with a LE adjustable stock though. Now to take them out shooting at some point.

Image
Hell yea, little in home mods and adaptations and you got yourself a new gun.

I've got a DDI Saiga clone, a couple hundy under what a Saiga cost for the Chicom version. Honestly, I can't tell a difference, and I don't shoot them enough to see appreciable wear damage.

I do have an Escort Slugger I bought many years ago before I got here to AZ in 2007, great gun, even better for the price.


Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde
User avatar
AZDESERTRAT
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 432
Joined: July 1st, 2018, 7:19 am
Reputation: 9
Location: Tucson

Re: Turkish Semi auto shotguns

#13

Post by AZDESERTRAT »

The panzer m4-gery with some new clothes and proper magazine tube all 922r’d up. Looking forward to finally shooting the thing.
Attachments
30976427-92A9-4947-B86D-C5A1851CC0FB.jpeg
User avatar
XM177E2
New to ArizonaShooting.org
New to ArizonaShooting.org
Posts: 15
Joined: October 17th, 2021, 2:18 am
Reputation: 0
Location: Lake Havasu City

Re: Turkish Semi auto shotguns

#14

Post by XM177E2 »

Kingjoey wrote: July 12th, 2021, 8:33 am We build aftermarket parts for the Escort MPA shotguns, those are made by Hatsan and I've been exceptionally impressed by them. Done a lot of mods to them for guys running them in 3-gun matches as well
I have the Escort MPA 12 Ga. Tactical. Been looking for a +2 magazine extension like the one Hatsan makes for it but won’t import to the US. Do you make an extension tube?
User avatar
Kingjoey
ArizonaShooting.org Member
ArizonaShooting.org Member
Posts: 760
Joined: July 3rd, 2019, 8:18 pm
Reputation: 3
Location: Casa Grande

Re: Turkish Semi auto shotguns

#15

Post by Kingjoey »

XM177E2 wrote: October 17th, 2021, 2:23 am
Kingjoey wrote: July 12th, 2021, 8:33 am We build aftermarket parts for the Escort MPA shotguns, those are made by Hatsan and I've been exceptionally impressed by them. Done a lot of mods to them for guys running them in 3-gun matches as well
I have the Escort MPA 12 Ga. Tactical. Been looking for a +2 magazine extension like the one Hatsan makes for it but won’t import to the US. Do you make an extension tube?
Yup, got oversized charging handles too
Post Reply