Can any 5.56mm rifle currently on the market really make a significant improvement on the current crop of AR15

[Ranger1]

If we take the meaning of current crop (AR15 platform from the 1960s design) then i would have to think that the SCAR and Tavor would be improvements since they are designed from the ground up to take advantage of newer technology and get pass the AR platforms 'design issues' (real or perceived).

If you were to take all the product improvments made for the AR platform (ie piston), then it would be a closer race.

I can see where you are coming from. But sit down grab a pen write down all the changes and the write down everything that hasn't changed. The Achilles heal of the AR15 or 10 platforms is the locking lugs of the bolt. Yes I know, coatings, pistons, different lubricants. Yes yes and yes. But know one has ever thought about maybe fewer locking lugs. How about a barrel extension that has a hole in the bottom so debris and oil/ water what ever can fall through instead of sit there and jam my weapon up. You can change all of it but the one parts that makes or brakes the AR is the bolt.

[Steve_In_29]

I can see where you are coming from. But sit down grab a pen write down all the changes and the write down everything that hasn't changed. The Achilles heal of the AR15 or 10 platforms is the locking lugs of the bolt. Yes I know, coatings, pistons, different lubricants. Yes yes and yes. But know one has ever thought about maybe fewer locking lugs. How about a barrel extension that has a hole in the bottom so debris and oil/ water what ever can fall through instead of sit there and jam my weapon up. You can change all of it but the one parts that makes or brakes the AR is the bolt.

As if the designer didn't already consider other locking lug arrangements? Like he just pulled 7 lugs out of his hat? The math dictates how many and how big the lugs have to be for a given chamber pressure. Less lugs means they each have to be bigger, which now changes the throw needed to unlock them. Which now requires changes in the bolt carrier and timing of the rifle. Possibly resulting in a bigger and/or heavier rifle. The math can be fudged by switching to a stronger steel but then manufacturing costs/difficulty go up.

ANY hole in the extension is a 2-way street and will also let dirt, water, etc INTO the rifle. Not something that is particularly desirable on a weapon you might have had to crawl through a muddy ditch with to get close enough to engage the enemy. Or came out of the ocean soaking wet to then crawl across a beach as you try to become one with the sand.

[Ranger1]

Ok then it's time to change up the design. This design is over 60 years old. They need to come up with something different. Everything else has changed but the bolt. Needs to be fixed.

[Steve_In_29]

Ok then it's time to change up the design. This design is over 60 years old. They need to come up with something different. Everything else has changed but the bolt. Needs to be fixed.

At which point you no longer have an AR.

The only things that have changed have been essentially cosmetic. Even going to a piston was nothing new as the AR18 had that back in 1963.

Contrary to what people like to think, even the newest rifles are really nothing more then repackaged AR15/18 designs. There has been no real innovation since the 60s, as even the 5.56 Galil/HK rifles were designed back then.

[Ranger1]

1 drop in trigger
2 but stocks
3 receivers upper and lowers.
4 billet Aluminum parts
5 Gas piston systems with improved parts
6 better manufacturing processes for barrels
7 better rifling for barrels
8 muzzle brake tech
9 Bolt carrier tech and coatings
10 buffer spring tech and coatings
And the list goes on and on.
Other than coatings the bolt has stayed the same.
Where the hell have you been for the last 20 years????

[Steve_In_29]

1 drop in trigger
2 but stocks
3 receivers upper and lowers.
4 billet Aluminum parts
5 Gas piston systems with improved parts
6 better manufacturing processes for barrels
7 better rifling for barrels
8 muzzle brake tech
9 Bolt carrier tech and coatings
10 buffer spring tech and coatings
And the list goes on and on.
Other than coatings the bolt has stayed the same.
Where the hell have you been for the last 20 years????

None of those have changed the basic rifle beyond what the AR15/18 was back in the 60s. They are simply improvements in the manufacturing process and/or cosmetics.

By the way, you forgot to mention all the pretty colors they come in now.

[Ranger1]

You have lost it. So nothing they have made for the AR in anyway shape or form helps the performance of the AR tie huh. Dumb ass u amaze me. I thought stupid was stupid then I met you. I guess you better tell all the manufacturers that make the next new part for the AR in order to make it better their just wasting their time because steve in 29 says it's still the same old piece of sh$t it was in the late 50's

[delta6]

Steve _In_29......
Save your breath.....

[knockonit]

I gotta float my stick with some of the comments, its an ar, the pants, and shirt don't mean crap, most of the new stuff is window dressing to catch the buyer who likes the new shiney. oh maybe some credence to a few odds and ends, but in the end, its the barrel, and the ammo. that will rule the day, not the super duper scope, not the butt stock, not the super duper trigger, its the shooter, the barrel and the ammo.
and if the shot placement isn't there, well then a nice club has been found.

[Ranger1]

[Steve_In_29]

Steve _In_29......
Save your breath.....

Pigeon....jpeg

Yeah I forgot who I was talking with and thought I could get an intelligent response on the topic.

By his logic if your wife puts on a new dress or gets her breasts done she is no longer the same woman you married 30 years ago.

[Berd]

I gotta float my stick with some of the comments, its an ar, the pants, and shirt don't mean crap, most of the new stuff is window dressing to catch the buyer who likes the new shiney. oh maybe some credence to a few odds and ends, but in the end, its the barrel, and the ammo. that will rule the day, not the super duper scope, not the butt stock, not the super duper trigger, its the shooter, the barrel and the ammo.
and if the shot placement isn't there, well then a nice club has been found.

Shot placement for the win.

RJ nails it.

[Ranger1]

Not really. If you are shooting from the bench and not humping it over land then a barrel and ammo will do it for you. For everyone else it's the function of the rifle that can be made better and it has been. But of course the bolt is still the problem child.

[Berd]

You can hump the greatest wonder rifle shooting bullets made of unicorn bone, but if you can't put the rounds where they need to go, all else is naught.

[Ranger1]

If you can't shoot then you can't shoot. The question was can is there anything on the market that would be a significant improvement on the current ar15 plsy form. I say yes